DIY Isolation base

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Madaboutaudio, Sep 19, 2016.

  1. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    For turn table and what nots:
     
  2. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Ok yeah it looks nice 'n all... but it won't actually do anything to remove vibrations other than through sheer mass. It needs some sort of isolating/decoupling layer or mechanism for proper isolation.
     
  3. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    <crossposted>

    I don't believe it.

    The only thing that object has over a lump of wood is that it is heavier. Maybe.

    Isolation is about stopping vibrations, right? A heavy thing may, or may not transmit vibrations less that a, err, less heavy thing.

    Isolation needs something that absorbs energy. As I understand it, that is what lower-end turntable boxes do with springs, and what high-end isolation tables do with hydraulics, rubber, and... stuff.

    Anyway, I don't believe in the need for isolation. Except for turntables. Would love a fancy isolation table if I had a fancy turntable. Seriously. Or... an amp with seriously microphonic valves. But who would want to own such a thing anyway?
     
  4. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I use metal ball bearings in an equilateral triangular shape under my CD player and DAC (with the balls resting in clothespins for support), on a wooden base, and a lightly inflated (thin) bicycle inner tube under the base. Totally transformed the sound for the better. I found putting stuff on top of the CD player had a negative effect.
     
  5. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    While we're at it. let's talk spikes. :headbang:

    Take a piece of wood. Nail it to another piece of wood. Call it isolation. Wait... How would that be isolatation? But it seems that audio people think that this is what spikes do! Or that those pesky vibrations just can't manage to cross a very small point of contact. Hah! Nobody told the vibrations!

    This is something that puzzled and confused me for many years, until I finally found some sense on spikes:

    Spikes and Cones – What’s the point?

    If your CD player and DAC are, somehow, sensitive to vibrations, then there is probably something wrong with them. Even a valve amplifier shouldn't be --- but, conceivably can be.

    Go analogue, and welcome to real-world problems like how to play records and dance in the same room!
     
  6. Madaboutaudio

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    A marketing video but with Interesting vibration experiment:


    Neat idea to use smartphone app to test for vibration resistance/effects.
     
  7. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    The CD/DVD player is actually fairly cheap, so it's definitely not the best. I started just isolating that and it had a tremendous impact. I have a Modi Multibit, so there's nothing "wrong" with it technically. When I isolated that, it had another very positive impact, just not as dramatic as the CD player. Isolating the Valhalla2 just made the sound...unattractive. I tried isolating my power conditioner, and there was another subtle but very noticable improvement.

    This isn't an infomercial. I dont give a schiit what anybody believes or does/doesnt do with their equipment. Just sharing my experience.
     
  8. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    The background murmur of the earth... Gives a whole new meaning to the words noise floor!

    But yes, interesting experiments and ideas. It makes sense. It makes enough sense that it looks like a desirable product. In fact, I did have something else in mind, but never got around to it: Isoacoustics speaker stands. IIRC, the aim is to control the axis of the speaker cabinet vibration, thus reducing smearing.

    I could be convinced by the admittedly marketing claims for either of these products. One difference is that the Isoacoustics stuff is affordable to the likes of me: the Podium product is not.
     
  9. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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  10. Thad E Ginathom

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    In my not-so-humble opinion, the Townsend guy should have left out the Seismic stuff. OK, so it might be real, but if it is moving my speakers, it is moving my chair and me too. So, unless he wants me to buy one for a special listening platform, which could be anything up to the size of the whole room, there doesn't seem to be much point in trying to isolate the speakers from earth murmur. But hey, it is still a heap more sane than crystals!

    Everything else up to that point seemed to make sense, and the demonstration seemed simple but plausible (Do our engineers agree?)

    If I was spending tens or even hundreds of Yggdrasils on a system, especially in a well tuned room, then an extra Yggi on their Podiums could well go on my buying list.

    (So it's a good thing I've given up the wish list!)
     
  11. Madaboutaudio

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  12. Madaboutaudio

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    Note: Best to watch this with an open(e.g. non-hydrogen audio nor @castleofargh ) mind:
     
  13. DigMe

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    Tell this to Mr. Vali, please. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing
     
  14. Thad E Ginathom

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    OK, OK, so I am a bit that way inclined. It's the effect of having had people throwing unicorn dust at me for years, and also, I'm quite happy to admit, a reaction against some silly ideas that I had once.

    On to the video...

    I'm completely convinced. Partly.

    I didn't need convincing about the spike thing: I'd come to that conclusion anyway. The idea of preventing/controlling vibration in speakers has also passed my plausibility filters some time back: it seems to me that this guy's product is going to work as a far more sensible idea for speakers than spikes ever were.

    Spikes were a mistake. But I, too, loved the star-wars effect of deep-bass orchestral music (like the end of Mahler's 2nd, with the low organ notes) coming up through my third ear (You know the one: between the buttocks!). But I get what he is saying. (And I no longer live in a wooden-floor house anyway)

    I'm convinced about the speakers. I'm convinced about turntables, because I come from a pre-digital age where we did want to dance to music. I know that tube amps can be microphonic, but I'm a solid-state man anyway.

    As to the rest, I am not entirely convinced, because it comes under the heading of real world: we are all vibrating with that stuff. But I am not screaming Loony audiophool here, because clearly the guy is not. So maybe there is something in the rest of what he says.

    Bottom line is, if I did have an expensive system, and more money to spend, I'd buy his stuff. For the speakers. Which is saying a lot, since I only heard if it four or five hours ago!
     
  15. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    It really bothers me that they go to the ridiculous lengths of invoking seismic activity, but don't even play a bass thump from the speakers. Nevermind that you've added about three mechanical degrees of freedom which is going to muck with your on-axis response.

    You could conceivably get very similar results to those super expensive podiums with a nice hefty piece of plywood+paving stone and a couple sandbags.
     
  16. Thad E Ginathom

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    I think DigMe's inner tubes would help to make than an effective sandwich.

    Maybe someone might take one of those Podiums apart, and show that there is not actually much in there to account for the cost. Maybe the cost is all part of the hifi packaging. I don't know.

    If he hadn't got into the seismic stuff, I don't think any of us would be disagreeing about the rest, in principle, at least.
     
  17. DigMe

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    That was ColtMrFire with the inner tube setup.
     
  18. Armaegis

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    It's a spring/damper system, using rubber and air vents as the damper.

    I don't strictly disagree with the stuff mentioned in the video, but as with all marketing jumbo it only throws sciency stuff around that sounds good and makes you think it supports their product based on the order they presented it to you.

    At one point in the first video they counter the argument for spikes, because people say spikes prevent your cabinets from moving. So they show the nice animation that tells you according to Newton's 3rd law spiking only give you 0.01 db difference or something like that, so thus spikes aren't necessary. Well sure, but if you dismiss the cabinet motion so bluntly then your entire product is really kinda unnecessary.

    Plus there is now the issue of the cabinet rocking as they've introduced several degrees of freedom into the system.
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

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    I think DigMe's inner tubes would help to make than an effective sandwich.

    Maybe someone might take one of those Podiums apart, and show that there is not actually much in there to account for the cost. Maybe the cost is all part of the hifi packaging. I don't know.

    If he hadn't got into the seismic stuff, I don't think any of us would be disagreeing about the rest, in principle, at least.

    Whoops.... sorry!
     
  20. Armaegis

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