Don't support Western Electric: shameless warranty runarounds

Discussion in 'Tales from the Bully Pulpit' started by purr1n, Mar 27, 2023.

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Should Marv make his first official SBAF YouTube video on this experience?

  1. Hell ya

    91.2%
  2. Na, let them slide

    8.8%
  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    1. OG POST: Here
    2. WESTERN ELECTRIC SHAMELESSLY PROMOTING 5 YEAR WARRANTY: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...meless-warranty-runarounds.13321/#post-405874 and https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-warranty-runarounds.13321/page-3#post-405963
    3. FEDERAL LAW SAYS REQUIRING WARRANTY CARDS NOT ACCEPTABLE: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-warranty-runarounds.13321/page-2#post-405933
    4. OTHER USERS REPORTING QUALITY ISSUES WITH WE 300B: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...meless-warranty-runarounds.13321/#post-405900 and https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-warranty-runarounds.13321/page-3#post-405973



    The irony of all this is that I helped them sell their product. See this thread for my review of the WE300B: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...tric-300b-impressions-and-measurements.12404/

    One of the Western Electric 300B vacuum tubes I purchased less than a year ago started cutting out and making noises. I submitted a warranty RMA via their website and received the following response:
    upload_2023-3-27_17-24-28.png

    Huh, WTF does "verify our warranty policy mean?" Here are my next responses.

    upload_2023-3-27_17-25-58.png

    Note that it took two emails for them to respond. I guess there is some booklet.
    upload_2023-3-27_17-26-53.png

    So I then try to find the booklet in the box. So what the heck is WE talking about?
    IMG_0745.jpg

    Until I notice this. Oh shit.
    70164717024__7C377E88-8B7D-4A7A-B133-23CE9634CE6B (1).jpg

    Wowee. This is just downright scammy, from a high-end audio company too. I've had to return tubes to KR and EML, but have never experienced anything like this.
     
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Some takeaways:
    1. Why didn't WE provide a sheet with a big warning: "IMPORTANT, PLEASE READ IMMEDIATELY AFTER PURCHASING" on the outside of the warranty card? Why was the warranty card folded and left blank on the outside except for the serial#?
    2. Why is the WE rep playing games and refusing simply to state: "We will not warranty the product because you did not fill out the warranty card within 10 days of purchased", but instead obliquely provided a link to their warranty policy or refuse to answer. <-- This is the really funny part.
    3. Why does (or did) WE heavily market their 5-year warranty publicly, per Steve Guttenberg, Wired, on their website (2022).
    With respect to good faith, we see other vendors do stuff like this to alert buyers. See this for example from Nitsch Audio. It's not a warranty card, but Nitsch Audio wanted to bring something to our attention. Who the F reads manuals and fills out warranty cards these days?
    70164783416__10B16F1C-9B2B-42E7-B92C-4D2D8810C98C.jpg

    This below however, how the heck am I supposed to know that I have to open the non-descript trifold and only have 10 days to fill it out?
    IMG_0750 (1).jpg

    Ultimately I am disappointed with Western Electric. I thought it was cool that a company in the USA would get back into making stuff like that. Instead, we get a company that seems shady.

    Obligatory picture:
    upload_2023-3-27_17-51-35.png

    Bottom line: If you plan on purchasing the WE300 tubes, make sure you open the warranty trifold, fill it out, and return it in 10 days after purchase. If you already purchased WE300 tubes and did not return the card, then you may be SOL.

    Finally, don't support companies like this. This is embarrassing and unbecoming for high-end audio company based in the United States of America. I hate to say it, but Chinese companies are more honourable.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
  3. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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    This is the kind of service I expect from an Amazon/Etsy drop shipper.
     
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  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I've gotten better service from people on Etsy.

    Also, does anyone know if this is even legal? Filling out a warranty card seems so dated and does seem like a unreasonable burden on the buyer, considering that Western Electric has in their records that I bought a pair of 300Bs from them! This makes no sense. It seems like WE is trying to wiggle out of their responsibilities.

    I should call a shady lawyer in town (plenty of billboards of them in CCTX). Put Western Electric through a discovery process to see how many other customers they've dicked over. There could be some serious punitive damages.
     
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  5. Wilewarer

    Wilewarer Almost "Made"

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    Or anyone selling computer parts. I think most pieces of my last computer build had something like this. Except instead of 10 days to return it, you had like 30 or maybe 90. So maybe the Chinese companies are actually -more- honorable, although I've had my warranty runarounds there too.


    One of the few things that justifies super high price tags is extremely good customer service, honestly. I can stomach spending large sums of money on something if I'm sure the company is going to take care of me if I have problems. Apparently, that's not Western Electric?
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    If I remember correctly, WE's spiel was a one year or five year warranty. Stuff like this certainly affects a buying decision. The customer service replies I received were hardly representative of a high-end brand. I'm surprised they didn't wish cancer upon me and my family. At least would have known where I stood instead of being confused.
     
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  7. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    This is sleazy given that you purchased directly from WE, both parties have proof of purchase, and you probably qualify as an at least somewhat "qualified and known figure" at this point - i.e. not some idiot trying to BS their way to a new product for something they broke. Hopefully management or technical staff can sort this out for you - just in case 1st level staff is there to be a filter.

    Also, not that this justifies it, but my understanding is Elrog, RK KR, and several of the other "new high end tube mfgs" are also like this if not worse. EDIT: Elrog responds in post #34. Seems like I may have just had a bad experience with their retailer.

    Sadly - I suspect this was [edit: *partially*] done to cut down on people trying to extend their warranties unethically by saying things like "I bought it used... uh I mean new... last week and now it's broken" instead of fessing up and saying things like "I bought it 2 years ago and when I was traveling with these I stuck the tubes into this amp I was trying. Oh I can't force these things into the wrong sockets? Oh this country has 220V and not 120V - what's that?????? Oh I bypassed the fuse and then I had a power surge why are tubes broken???"
    The above is based on true stories at my last job, but converted into amp terms. Needless to say after I performed my 2 second "technical review by an engineer" I had people deny those fraudulent warranty claims.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  8. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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    It wasn't till after march 2022 was it removed from their product page claiming the 5 years, no asterisk, no hyper link to warranty from it.
    upload_2023-3-27_16-17-5.png
    Even Steve G said they have a 5 year warranty instead of the typical 90 days.

    MOD EDIT:
     

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  9. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Oh gawd, I hope this isn't true, but I may have been the person who started this.

    In the Theta days, when stuff was sold only by dealers, Theta wanted a way to contact their customers directly. They had a 5-year warranty and the usual warranty card, but of course many people didn't fill out the cards. So I told Mike, "Hey, I got a great idea--give them a 90-day warranty standard, and a 5-year free extension if they fill out the card."

    Long story short, it worked. However, the warranty terms were clearly stated, people were encouraged to fill out the "warranty extension," and I don't think Theta ever denied any real warranty claims if there was no card on file.

    So, if it was me, I apologize. This made sense in an era of dealers and no direct contact with customers, especially for a company in the business of doing upgradable products. It makes zero sense today. Zero.
     
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  10. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    I'm sorry to hear all of this about WE, this is really unpardonable and inexcusable from a tried-and-true company like WE. But thank you for bringing an originally-drawn soyjack meme to an SBAF thread lol. Gave me a good laugh.
     
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  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yes, but I'm sure you guys at Theta provided a BIG GIANT LETTER SIZED SHEET (probably in orange or pink):

    5-year free extension if you fill this out!

    Because this is what you wanted right? You wanted a way to contact your customers!
    I've seen the materials that come with Theta gear. All of it is interesting along with BIG DANGER notices.

    Western Electric here seems to be intentionally hiding from their marketing spiel.

    Where did you get that? I smell lawsuit with punitive damages. I don't even want the money. The law firm can keep it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2023
  12. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    Even though they want the product to be registered,
    it should be online and not by filling a piece of paper and then shipping it to whatever address they are located at. This is so old century way of working.
     
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  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    But that would be too easy. Requiring a customer to open a trifold that had no indication that it was a warranty card is a much better method for refusing customer warranties!

    TBH, I don't even want to ask WE nicely with the condition to taking this thread down. I'd like the whole world to know if this will make WE better and their customers better informed. All my email responses are above. I never shouted or screamed at anybody. Just asked for a RMA and clarification.

    Why do I think this latest iteration Western Electric is about to go under? I've noticed a lot of crappy service from many vendors lately. Some vendors even suddenly went kaput in the middle of the night. This happened to an email security service vendor. Another vulnerability scanning service vendor has had me waiting well over two months now after purchase to activate licenses for additional nodes. LOL, maybe WE banks at Silly Con Valley Bank (don't get me started on them - I worked in banking before media & entertainment, and yes, I did investments audits at banks too).
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2023
  14. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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  15. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    A consumer friendly company would have replied

    Hi Marvey,

    Sorry to hear about the issue you had with the tubes. We are happy to take a look into it. However we see you haven’t registered your product yet with us. Here is the link for the same :

    once registered, please send out the tubes to us.

    I think they have taken the word “Vintage” from tubes in literal sense and implemented it in their business.
     
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  16. ergopower

    ergopower Friend

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    Went to the website, there's a customer interest form for other tube types. You can add a comment at the end. I added
    'Really, you're not going to honor a warranty claim because a warranty registration card wasn't mailed in?
    Referring to your customer Marv Chen'
    Won't accept the form, maybe others have started to similarly criticize
     
  17. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    This is most companies these days. Make it super easy to put money in their pocket (buy their product) and super hard to get anything back if needed. And they don't give a shit about your customer experience because all the other companies are like that so you have no choice to go to a competitor that does better. It's an unspoken cartel of sorts. This is because the vast majority of companies can't innovate. It's the same old cookie cutter product so the only way to make a profit off you is to find ways to fleece you.

    In WE's case, they know you don't have much choice so hooray for them and f**k you.
     
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  18. Woland

    Woland Friend

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    You gotta recognise that "Western Electric" is a special kind of company that bought a historic brand. Their business is milking that brand and reputation, and quite different to companies that are reliant on building and maintain their own reputation.
     
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  19. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I will share a bad experience I had with Western Electric and their 300B tubes as well- also with my Studio B and the tubes making noise. They made noise righ tout of the box, both of them, and the type of noise changed channels with the tubes and followed the tubes. I guess I contacted them soon enough that this card did not matter because I didn't see it either.

    @Josh Schor experienced the exact same noise as I did in his Studio B with his WE 300B tubes, and when he called them on the phone, they were super kind and talked to him about his amp and made him a special pair of tubes that would not make noise in the Studio B.

    Backstory:
    I have a chronic illness called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome / Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME/CFS) as many of your probably know. I have not been able to speak for 10 years now, not one word. I am severely ill, and music and having fun with audio is my biggest escape because the rest of my life is advocacy work for ME/CFS. And my headphone company rhythmdevils audio is a huge escape as well and a chance at denying the illness from taking away a career from me, which it does to most patients especially those as sick as I am. In making rhythmdevils audio a reality I am defying the will of ME/CFS and that is a huge victory for me that I am very proud of. If you have noticed delays in getting production started, or noticed that there are not many headphones in people's hands it is because of this illness and having to rest most of the time and not having energy to get what I need done. Prototyping is more difficult in terms of creative vision, but requires much less energy than producing headphones for customers on even a small scale. But I have brought on @loadexfa who is the best person ever and bought my own 3D printing gear so I will be starting production soon thanks to his help making my designs. (I'll be monitoring everything and checking everything but I also trust his ears).​

    I therefore could not call Western Electric about the issue and could only email them. I was first told that they did not offer special tubes as a service, despite them doing so for Josh. I then told them Josh's experience and told them I could not speak on the phone with them due to a chronic illness that made speaking impossible, and I then gave them his customer and invoice info so they could look up his case and just copy what they did for his tubes and they told me they could not acknowledge private information. They basically just didn't give a shit. They returned the tubes for a refund, but my experience with them was sooo much colder and so much more beurocratic because I could not call them and speak with them human to human on the phone. This is a great example of subtle ableism. Subtle because it is partly just human nature to be kinder on the phone and maybe make a few exceptions because it's not in writing and you like the customer, but it is still treating a sick person differently than a healthy one directly because of limitations imposed by the illness and knowing full well they have these limitations due to an illness. if anyone should have gotten an exception it was me. I was not happy about it and will not buy anything from them again.

    edit: I'm ok, I don't want to derail the thread, I will make a thread about my story at some point after rhythmdevils audio gets going. I know you all care. :)
     
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  20. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Ah ha, so the Syn is an extended warranty card! I’ve cracked the code!
     
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