Dune (Denis Villeneuve)

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by purr1n, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    That's an interesting reading, and you make a compelling point about both movies riffing on noir tropes.

    2049 also puts the relationship between Joe/Officer K and Joi front and center and asks them, and us, if an android and an AI can experience something like human love. I think that's a pretty compelling element of the new movie, even if it is somewhat hampered by naming characters things like Joi, Luv, and Joe K. (As in Joseph K, as in Kafka, an allusion I'm not sure the film knows why, exactly, it inserts into its many references.)

    What interests me about the original Blade Runner is that, on the plot level, it's nothing particularly remarkable. Golden age sci-fi had already had plenty to say about robots and androids and our conception of humanity. And the main plot line--robot hunter hunts down robots one by one--is pretty simple (and sturdy, I'd add). The dialogue, too, can be pretty stiff in places (though Hauer's improvised monologue is still for the ages). But the original film didn't need to be particularly intricate or twisty on the plot level. It was a visual stunner in which the expressionist visual language--giant pyramids, light-up umbrellas, doves--both dazzled and seemed to make concrete a world in which vital human connection has become rare or impossible but pure love and, perhaps, the lack of cynicism in sometimes child-like robots could still remind of us of our own lost innocence.

    While I think the narrative of 2049 is up to some interesting things, it often feels needlessly complex to me. Huge questions--android rebellion happens somewhere in the background, for example--are given short shrift. And Wallace is less interesting than Tyrell, b/c he's just written and played as Sadistic Villain, not a reckless creator bemused by his own genius, as Joe Turkel did it in the first film.

    The meandering quality of the plot isn't helped either by the fact that 2049 has a hefty running time. I tend to agree with Ridley Scott's assessment that it's just too long. The original Blade Runner's plot gets us right where we need to be. 2049 wanders, in its scene-by-scene pacing, its overall structure, and its thematic focus. I like it, but the first film is far more memorable.
     
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  2. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I don't disagree! I think it's a worthwhile sequel in that it genuinely grapples with the issues raised in the first film, instead of just rehashing nostalgia for nostalgia's sake.

    Also Joe K isn't just a reference to Kafka the author, it's a reference to Josef K, the main character in The Trial.
     
  3. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    Right, exactly, it's a reference to The Trial. But I can't see what it's seeking to connect to in that book. You'd need to make a rather loose reading of that already heavily allegorical novel to get anywhere with the reference, to my mind. This is, to me, more evidence that Villeneuve is tempted by grand gestures--monumental images, heavy-handed literary allusions--that he employs to rather murky effect. It's a weird mix of more-is-more storytelling and plodding pacing.

    But, to give the film some credit, it's not content merely to replay the structure and story beats of the first film--as in, say, The Force Awakens--and there is some interesting stuff to chew on. But, for me, it's diluted by the size and scope of everything.
     
  4. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    If I had to guess, I would imagine that they were trying to draw a parallel to the perplexing situation of Josef K. in the trial and the perplexing crisis of identity Joe experiences in the film? I agree it's not the most fleshed out allusion, but I'd be curious to know if it came from Fancher or from Denis.
     
  5. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    Fair point! I guess I assume most directors at Villeneuve's level are partly re-writing scripts, but definitely could be from Fancher.

    Plenty of inevitable quotes from Pinnochio, too. You're a real boy, etc.
     
  6. DigMe

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    Another thing that I think should be mentioned when comparing the plots to the two BR movies is that Fancher did not have a book to refer to (as far as I’m aware) when writing 2049. Philip K. Dick’s book was an excellent source for the adaptation and it was probably much easier to keep everything in focus when adapting a well-written and successful book vs making up the story on your own. I suspect that this had at least something to do with the difference in flow and focus between the two movies.
     
  7. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    IIRC the book and the movie resemble each other in only the most broad strokes. The movie ignores the whole religion angle, the Replicant police department, and the book doesn't really think much about the humanity of the Replicants.
     
  8. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    Yeah, the book is tonally way different, too. There are things that are great about it, but it's not one of my favorite Dick novels. I much prefer, say, Ubik.

    One of the neat things about Blade Runner is what it strips away from the book, actually. It's a great and exceedingly savvy adaptation.
     
  9. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I love Ubik! Can't believe no one's made that into a movie yet.

    The best, most accurate, but also works amazingly well as a movie adaptation of Dick's work to date is A Scanner Darkly.
     
  10. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    Yeah! What a great book. Such a trip.

    Fun to think about what directors could do justice to it. They'd have to be a real visual stylist. Maybe Terry Gilliam circa Brazil.

    Agree about Scanner Darkly. That's a great adaptation. I was excited to start/catch-up with Man in the High Castle last year, but it never really caught fire for me. Sort of curious about The Adjustment Bureau, too. "The Adjustment Office" is among my favorite Dick stories.
     
  11. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    The original Blade Runner script was much more scaled down and noir-ish. Ridley Scott is the one who wanted to broaden the scope. I never liked the first Blade Runner, which always felt like a tone reel for art school nerds. I understand its impact and appreciate it, but it's never really moved me. Scott's Alien remains a much better overall film for me.

    Funny enough, I've been rewatching the TNG Star Trek movies, and last night finished the final one, Star Trek Nemesis, which deals with this very question. Data's clone as it were, has no memories, and is just kind of a blank slate. Geordi tells Data that transferring his memories into the clone would diminish his individuality, since the memories are not personal. But Data posits that his quest to be human is to better himself, not be defined by his experiences. I don't like the film, I don't think it works, but that element was always really interesting to me. Philip K Dick's other adapted work, Total Recall (from his book, We Can Remember It For You Wholesale), also ponders this idea of memory being tied to identity for humans, and the title character's rejection of this idea.... he is defined by his actions, not his memory.
     

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