EC Aficionado (was: The Studio Jr.)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by AppleheadMay, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Comzee

    Comzee Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2016
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    33
    "respect" what's there to respect when the person that is in close association with Eddie Current is telling me he wished he peed in my amp... Also, the stock EC AF is warmbutt and soft, that's hyper confirmed by many people. Weather it's the caps or tertiary mod, what was released was not as good as what I have.

    Now I'll mop up some more dislikes :)

    And if anybody wants a counter opinion, weather you trust Marv more than Craig, that's your personal choice. I went with Craigs advice, which ordered those transformers specifically with a tertiary winding for the sole purpose of feedback. I have two SET OTC no feedback amps, and the EC AF with the slight feedback it has still shits on them. So weather feedback is good or not, that's down to cronies to like and dislike posts. All I know is the amp I have is elite.

    edit: I'd also like to mention it's not some run of the mill feedback, it's from and old McIntosh patent that expired. It's how to cancel out irregularities between the output transformers and reduce second harmonic distortion.

    edit2: and referring to the post below, ya I could have said what I said better, in a not so matter of fact way. I'm not even friend status here, people can just ignore my opinion and go on their marry way. I'm not the person twice my age telling a paying customer they wished they'd peed in my amp.
    I also posted because I know four other people that have not posted their impressions of stock ec af, that have directly told me the amp in stock form is not good. Eddie Current and Marv get a big circlejerk around here, just trying to give some counter opinions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  2. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,973
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Denver CO
    Home Page:
    It's not about wether you are right or not. Dump the f'ing attitude and lighten up kid.
     
  3. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    Likes, dislikes, who gives a shit.

    Probably should have been formulated better and with a less aggressive and pompous tone, but it's good to hear that XYZ gear isn't flawless and here's why.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I will reply with three statements:

    It's not about me. It's about making a consistent sounding product. I've been totally transparent with people who have asked me about configuration options. I am well aware that people have different sonic preferences than I do. In fact, if you've bothered reading through the thread, you would have known about all the decision making factors that went into this amp.

    You are the one who knowingly knew you were being an ass by prefacing your post with "I know I might get banned..." You could have easily said, for those who might be interested, an alternate approach for the AF is to use the tertiary and here is why. I would have simply applauded you for your decision, but noted possible gain issues, and lack of line level output isolated from main output. But instead, you proceeded to act like a pompous ass, after declaring that you would.

    f**k off and die. You don't get to edit your post. I've reverted it back to the original. You also don't get to start shit publicly and then demand that I take it private.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  5. nachocheese70

    nachocheese70 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    US and China
    @purr1n Is the 2A3 amps also no feedback? Mine does have the Cinemag OPT. Would this amp also potentially benefit from the same cap upgrade as AF?

    @Comzee Your earlier post really belongs at HF or another site, and you (or anyone who does something similar) will get shit/disliked even if you said the same thing to another MOT who isn’t an admin. Forgetting your tone, my biggest issue with your post here at SBAF is you seemed to jump to conclusions. You have two major changes simultaneously so it’s a leap to say definitively both are critical (it could be one is definitely better the other is a personal taste).
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    @nachocheese70 : Your specific amp should have the tertiary wired up.

    FYI, to give you an idea how full of himself this guy is. Yeah, he's 27 and can afford stuff like this. I bought my first house at 27. Just going to ban him since it seems that what he wants.

     
  7. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sacramento
    I am probably a dummy for sticking my head back in here, but... I really got a lot out of Comzee's original post and then purr1n's impassioned responses. @purr1n is right, he has been clear as daylight about his rationale towards the voicing of the AF. But for whatever reason, the lively interchange really helped me make a decision in the absence of being able to truly A/B the two different iterations.

    I think the tertiary mod makes sense for me, because:
    1) The lower gain thing is a actually a huge plus for me. I have pansy ears and this will give me more play on the pot, perhaps enough to not have to employ digital reduction.
    2) This is for my office rig, so if I ever end up running speakers, it will just be small bookshelf’s.
    3) The more I thought about it, the more I realized I would ultimately be happy with a more "studio jr" approach. It's just the closet objectivist in me, but whenever the audiophile nervosa kicks in, my brain starts feeding me the "euphonic = distortion" line. I know it is BS, but I am also stuck being me, so it is what it is. Also, there are always the Jupiter caps!!!

    EDIT: wow, he really went for it in that PM
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I only saw the PM afterward just a few minutes ago. Been pretty hectic today at work with product launch last week and field test going awry with people pushing the wrong buttons causing minor hiccups. Under such circumstances, I tend to have zero tolerance for nonsense. Spoiled millennials seem to think that I read my PM religiously on the hour every hour, just so that I can service them immediately like their mommies.

    P.S. Craig and I do disagree on many things, but in the end, he makes the call. It's not my company and I don't take money from him. We laugh that the best approach is the get both versions of the amp.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  9. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    ... huh, I was slightly curious about the winding thing until I figured out its the nfb you took out fairly early on iirc?

    Anyway, my soldering iron appears to have vanished in the house move, anyone have a cheap & cheerful suggestion (amazon? The dread pirate bezos doesn't have enough of my money) in case it doesn't appear before the Af gets here? My 0.1ufs are on the way.

    Finally, I've been a very good boy and not posted a macro about him really being after puts on sunglasses negative feedback yeeeeah, it was really hard q.q
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    The next thing that is going to happen is that people are going to order the Studio without feedback from the tertiary just so that you can get a more tubey sound. You have no idea how many people commented that the Studio was too neutral or too lean.

    Try the caps first. Too much nervosa. I ran the Af with the green caps for the longest time. I knew there was better, but too lazy (the Jupiters sat on my desk for months) and would rather enjoy music. The Cinemag OPTs have a certain sound, tertiary windings used or not. Feedback when implemented was minimal, a few db. The differences in bass quality aren't extreme. If one thought the stock Af was truly warmpoo, then all those changes would not have cured it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  11. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    No need to, just no interest at all in nfb - the lack of it is one of the reasons I ordered one. :)

    I'm actually surprised how the nervosa monkey on my shoulder doesn't seem to give a damn about it...
     
  12. nachocheese70

    nachocheese70 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    May 10, 2017
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    US and China
    I’ve recently read all I could on EC amps on many websites, and one thing I’ll note is beware of the “grass is greener on the other side.” I’ve run across complaints against the Studio sounding a little dry or sterile (or something like that) and the suggestion was to ask for a Studio with AF tuning. Maybe it’s completely different sounding than AF with Studio tertiary winding/feedback, but point is try and get a chance to listen for yourself (and how it works for your headphone).

    I need to one day open up my 2A3 and play around. One nice thing about point to point wiring (or breadboard) is it’s easier to make changes than a circuit board. Craig and Purr1n are very good about what can be done. In fact Craig gave instructions how to convert mine to use 45 tubes, but his directions required me to trim cathode resistor to hit the right voltage for the 45 tube, which means basically playing with a live amp. Due to my aversion to death by electricity, I’ll stick to cap swapping on a dead amp (all caps properly discharged).

    But I’ll say I persoannly want to spend more time with the amp as is. Plus my dealer is letting me try out the Abyss Phi as he feels I’ll really like them, and then consider selling the Utopia (I can’t afford both, was hoping not to stretch to Abyss). In this case I may need all the gain I can get.
     
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    The problem with this game:
    1. There is always better. Even once you finish an amp. There is always better. Those who have been around for a while realize that in the majority of instances, better was really just different. All manufacturers make running changes. They don't announce them because it pisses off early owners.
    2. Tweakers, myself included, often over magnify the effects of small changes by ten times. In reality, the change of cap increases performance by 2%. But right after we make the change, we are so tuned in that we think the improvement is 20%. The AF still sounds like the AF after $$$ cap or whatever upgrades. This is often better realized six weeks after the supposed 20% improvement. The joke has always been "I installed a new cap, of course it sounds better".
    3. Related to #1. Stick with the base Af. Just take some time to enjoy it for what it is. I'm sorry that Comzee felt the Wrangler should only be sold in the Rubicon edition with the gas shocks, the bigger tires, the limited slip, the rocker rails, and the heavier axles. But really, the Wrangler sport is already extremely capable off road. Note that EC is really not set up to offer different trim levels like Fiat-Chrysler.
    @raif: In terms of sound, the AF is somewhere in between the old BA and Studio. The main determination for you is this: do you want a solid state like sound?

    If yes, then get the AF with the feedback from the tertiary windings, knowing that gain will be low with no guarantee on speaker use.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  14. raif

    raif Man made lobster/plankton

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Sacramento
    I am not sure if it was your intention or not, but you just sold the sh*t out of the tertiary winding mod with that analogy.

    Jokes aside, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that I would indeed want this to lean more in the studio direction, even though I respect the stock AF tuning. If anyone is interested in me being completely honest and losing all audiophile credibility, I can go into painful(ly boring) detail.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    LOL. It has always been an secret menu item. You guys know how I like to slyly imply things which I did during my episodic posts regarding the development of the Af. This is why when I actually saw the amp, I thought "wow, someone was smart enough to do some research and order it this way. That's kind of cool."

    However, no respect for the attitude. I don't take shit that like from 27 year olds who think they know everything without direct experience. The "I'm probably going to banned... and I don't care" was a rhetorical device with a lose-lose proposition that I had no problem indulging him with. I don't mind losing.
     
  16. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    Weather.....ugh.....it's f'ing whether!
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    Yes, but you are 27 and can afford stuff like this?
     
  18. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    I bought my house 5 years ago and travelled the world many times.

    I'm now 32 and just finished Masters Degree, half cut in a pub since I just finished writing my MCAT... no I honestly don't have any money left ha!
     
  19. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    Do you have a mortgage?
     
  20. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    2,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Home Page:
    Of course! I didn't win the lottery.
     

Share This Page