Experimenting with High-Pass for P3ESR with REL T5i

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by murphythecat, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    im a idiot :). my previous setting was creating phase cancelation under 40hz, this is why I had no more extension.

    ive lowered the xo back to the minimum setting, changed the phase and get much better extension with a even flater response... it seems my sub would benefit from more then just 180 or 0 degree as down low, the sub is slightly out of phase but from 60hz to 120hz its perfectly in phase.




    [​IMG]
     
  2. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    allright, lots of moving around and changes in my system. MUCH better measurements. Ive decided to conect my sub via the low level input. and went from a midfield setup to almost nearfiled. im now sitting 5 feet away from the speakers

    at the listening position. the P3ESR highpassed L+R channel + Sub
    [​IMG]

    at the listening position. Left channel with and without subwoofer. P3ESR highpassed
    [​IMG]

    at the listening position. Right channel with and without subwoofer. P3ESR highpassed:
    [​IMG]


    im pretty much done here with this setup. time to upgrade my REL to a bigger/better sub and amps
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  3. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    lotta things changed recently. im now pretty much in nearfield position

    after months of experimentation. I say fuck it, dont like the sound of highpassing my p3esr. since im sitting about 5 feet away from them, the woofer doesnt move much at any SPL i wish to listen.


    this is my response L+ R + sub at the Listening position.

    [​IMG]

    Left speaker + sub measured at the listening position

    [​IMG]

    right speaker + sub measured at the listening position

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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  4. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I tried a high-pass on my ATC SCM20's and didn't like it either. It's just a bit bigger than your Harbeth's and also an acoustic suspension design, so they're similar-ish.

    I did the highpass using JRiver's built in parametric EQ. Maybe it's just something in the math used, because even above where the slope kicks in things just sounded a bit off and "flat" for lack of a better word.
     
  5. BIGGER Dave

    BIGGER Dave Rando

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    I did something similiar although less accurate. I had my Harbeth P3ESR’s in my bedroom hooked up to my old Marantz 2238B (bought new when I was a teenager). I turned the BASS down on the Marantz, limiting the bass going to the Harbeths, but then turned the LEVEL control up on my SVS sub to compensate. Sounded (to my ears) pretty good! I eventually replaced the P3ESR’s with Harbeth M30.1 speakers. Both the P3ESR and M30.1 sound similiar although the M30.1 play slightly louder and deeper.
     
  6. Sunflower_sutra

    Sunflower_sutra Acquaintance

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    I have very little experience with subs but trying to learn and please feel free to educate me but if your using a highpass filter which I'm assuming is passive wouldn't that cause a reduction in dB? Or is this being done through dsp? Have seen the minidsp which looks great but is the dac upto the task for a high end system?

    *Sorry for the edit getting use to forum posts*
     
  7. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    This thread reminds me why I HATE trying to integrate a sub...they're a frickin bitch to get right. At least @murphythecat has something to measure with, I just do it by ear. Can never quite get it just right, but I think I was pretty close with my previous setup (ATC SCM19 + Rel T7i).

    Now however I just acquired a set of Dynaudio Special Fortys, so I need to try to integrate the T7i again....

    Think I'll just leave the damn thing off for now! :D
     
  8. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    good luck :S!
    I personally couldnt do it by ears. furthermore, the rel T series xo is truly not well representative. in the sense that when you put the t7i at the min level of xo setting (30hz), the sub roll off at about -3db at 55hz. every rel ive measured featured that same behavior.
    meaning that with your atc scm19 which roll off probably -6db at 55hz, the right setting will definitely be to place the rel at min level

    the dynaudio forty imo extend too low. your rel cannot be well integrated. for example, I had amphion one18 which extends very similar to your dynaudio and I could never have a flat response since the sub even set at the min xo setting created a bump around 50hz because the one18 extended too low and the rel so made the rel start to roll off too high. Im positively sure that you wont be able to integrate the rel t7i with your dynaudio. Its truly a problem imo that you cannot make the REL roll earlier then -3db at 55hz.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  9. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Yep I had already thought of this as well. We will see. With the ATCs I believe I had the crossover at 2 notches above the minimum, so what you say about the rolloff makes sense. Also I had to pull them out a fair bit more into the room than when I was running them without the sub.

    One option I have with the Dynaudios is, because they are ported, to use the supplied bungs to either partially or fully block the port in order to reduce their low frequency extension. Then they may integrate a bit better.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  10. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

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    no doubt, My atc scm7v3 at my girlfriend place are right against the front wall and they extend down to 55hz flat. the SCM19 against the wall probably extend flat to 45hz

    I highly recommend that you get a cheap umik-1 mic. not only it helps tremendously with integrating subs, but also understanding your room acoustic and how much different speaker placement affects your FR at your listening position. you might be surprised how its easy to improve your speaker system by moving both your speakers a few feet here or there and have a much better FR at the LP.
     
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  11. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Yeah I agree. Thanks for the recco on the mic. I had been looking at the miniDSP stuff a while back and never got around to looking more into it. I may pick one of those up soon to help out with this one (and just generally with room setup/placement, as you say.)
     
  12. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I'd also recommend REW (Room EQ Wizard); it's got a fairly decent room node/mode calculator so you can play with positioning the sub in the digital domain to get an idea where (roughly) you might be able to mitigate standing waves. You don't necessarily need to use an EQ; just play with the Room Simulator.
     
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  13. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Thanks, yeah there's actually a page on the miniDSP site about using the umik-1 with REW. Looks pretty straightforward and cool: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-setup-with-rew
     
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