Focal Elear and Utopia

Couldn't reply until now.

You're right, 46kHz seems way too high for plastic considering that even tweeters with exotic materials and far smaller diaphragms struggle to push the resonance that high. However, as you said, the HD800 driver also has a very special shape.

I will remeasure and report back tomorrow ... (ended up not posting until now...)

Yes, you were right. I even remembered that my measurements didn't show extension to 50kHz, so a resonance at 46kHz wouldn't really make sense. I must've gotten some numbers mixed up, sorry.
The most significant resonance seems to be at 38kHz and there also seem to be two very small bumps (less than 3db) centered at 28kHz and 33kHz. The bumps hardly show up in the CSDs (if at all) while the 38kHz resonance rings on forever (super high Q and >10db amplitude).
The HD600 driver (at least in my measurements) seems to have resonances at about 5, 12 and 24kHz, but those are much better damped. I feel the ones at 5 and 12kHz are audible. I think @Hands said something to the same extent somewhere else.

Yes, going by that it wouldn't do anything. Makes me wonder if the back of their inverted dome tweeter diaphragm has the same bump...

Then again isn't this way too oversimplified for everything but planar diaphragms? This still doesn't mean that a bump there will have an effect on a dome shaped diaphragm.

I feel the same way about Focal.

I think the HD800 is far less open (by the looks of it) and less of a long throw design.

Thank you for this. I thought I was going crazy for thinking that the HD800 coil was also formerless because the Focal rep kept saying that it was a "first" for headphones or something like that.

Thank you for the calculation. Yes, going by that the former does indeed seem to be the most significant portion of the weight.

That's also what I thought. Thicker wire so it's more sturdy.

I think in the end it comes down to the specific design. I'd also bet that a formerless coil would need far more strict QC than one with a former. The HD800 coils are said to have a super strict quality control.

 

Thanks for checking the measurement Serious, this is such a change from the blabbing on other site lol.

In regards to fundamental modes of dome vs. circular diaphragm, they're of the same kind I believe.
I can run a simulation at some point but, essentially, the curvature in the radial direction increases stiffness, hence shifting natural frequencies upward, but the mode shapes are still of same kind because of the symmetry (combination of bessel functions).

As you mentioned, remains to be seen of the Be diaphragm has uniform thickness or not (that would change mode shapes and natural frequencies too).

In any case, am curious to read trustworthy impressions on these Focal phones as I suspect it may a while till I hear them myself.

arnaud

 

Totally agree!

Accuton drivers need a true MASTER designer who knows how to get the best out of them. Apart from newer generation models from the Marten lineup, there has been NO implementation of the ceramic drivers that I have ever cared to open my wallet up for.

Even Marten took quite a lot of time to get the crossover design, cabinet design and sound of their speakers JUST right...they didn't hit the bullseye early on, though the company has ALWAYS used ceramic and diamond drivers from their very inception as a speaker manufacturer.

 

So I bothered to read Head-Fi thread, and actually a bit surprised at lukewarm responses.

I guess at least people still have some sense left.

 

Actually most headphones these days use overhung, formerless coil designs. Even the very cheap 20$ ones.
I was very surprised myself when I heard Jude and the Focal guy praise it as some kind of "innovation".
I can only think of some Japanese headphones that use formers, Beyerdynamic places their coils on an extruded portion of the diaphragm.

I think they are used so prominently because they are easier to make and the absence of a former increases efficiency while also keeping the ohm rating to reasonable levels.
Overhung designs performing worse by default, as stated by the Nighthawk prodcut page, imho is a myth.
A Overhung coil probably allows for higher Xmax without causing considerable distortion while also using simpler magnet structures. To get high Xmax from an underhung coil in a headphone you either have to use extremly thin wire (you don't want 5 Ohm headphones) which in most cases is economically unreasonable or you have to make the magnetic gap higher which requires bigger magnets resulting in more weight.
As people like to say around here "it's all about the implementation".

Btw on the AKG K812 promo video you can see them winding formerless coils in a fully automated process.
They only seem to be problematic when using very thin wire like in the HD800/700/650/600 because the thinner wire not only wiggles around but also rips very easily.

 

AKG K812s aren't known to live up to their price so maybe Sennheiser's got something going for them by choosing a more difficult to manufacture design (which they've handled beautifully so far unlike some other brands, one of which pays a little too much attention to making wooden rings that don't even last ). Maybe this has something to do with just how well HD800/700/650/600 resolves ?

 

The thread over at Head-fi has a few impressions. I’ve never really followed Head-fi threads before and the contrast in reactions is amazing.

For the asking price most headfiers say : “meh”

The ‘’expert reviewers’’ and industry insiders are basically falling over themselves to declare the Utopia as THE GREATEST EVER and the Elear as a ‘steal’ at $999

And then you have the incredibly annoying sales rep from the Source AV reminding people every few pages that these are super awesome.....

Shillilicious!

 

Rthomas, this is my first time with this too. Wow.

 

Yes. A shop in CA.

 

yeah, that source av sales guy is so damn annoying, i'd never do business with them

 

Same. He's just spamming the thread and saying how he's the only guy who's selling them and that they are better than everything, including SR-009 etc. Over and over.

 

He has found a very fertile hunting ground for people ready to drop large amounts of coin if there is enough peer pressure.

 

He's saying now that some of the impressions that favored the HD800S over Utopia are because the Utopias weren't burned in enough!

 

Yes. They should have burned them in over at least 400 hours.

 

Vendors and companies love this line. "Keep listening until your mind adjusts or you decide to like them regardless." "Oh you heard them and didn't like them? Just buy them and burn them in, the ones you heard weren't right."

 

Yes burn them in just past the 2 week return window and they will open up like a flower in spring and transport you straight to Abbey Road Studios...

 

Exactly. Burn-in time is always just past the return date.

 

So true - but to be honest the impressions coming through are still not from ears I can trust - but one recent impression is specific enough that I can read through the reviewer style "everyone's a winner" rhetoric (not anyone out - I know it's good manners) to get some idea of the general performance characteristics, and the impression I gather is that my money is safe. Hopefully these will be at upcoming Australian HiFi show - but I have no idea if that will be the case.

 

I didn't understand one thing... What is a "distortion filter", and in what circumstances is this actually a good thing?