Focal pads are overpriced

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by DigMe, Mar 29, 2021.

  1. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    the unpleasant reality is that when you consider the potential profit margins built into the headphones, the margins built into the pads make more 'sense'...
     
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  2. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    The title screamed to me "and water is wet". I thought this was well known, and we're still figuring ways around it.

    That said, anyone try ZMF pads on them that worked well? I've read up on the Dektoni ones and they are an option if you know what trade offs you are dealing with.
     
  3. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    This is reminding me of the thread that I made about buying music.

    There is a psychological stumbling block for people who blow their load on hardware but go cheap on software. I know there's tons of disagreements on the respectable end to @crenca's post, but I see his perspective in full on this. We all wish Focal pads can be cheap (and I hope there are ways people can clone them to sound just the same as a Clear Pad but cost $50), but Focal will always be Focal and we might need to accept the glory hole for what it is before we invest.
     
  4. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    Comparing price of pads to retail price of headphones is a pretty useless metric IMO. It's always going to favor expensive headphones and make cheaper headphones look like they're ripping you off on pads. Bumping up the price of your headphones doesn't suddenly justify the pads being more expensive.

    The most telling metric from your comparison is that none of the other manufacturers had replacement pads costing more than $90 (Or $80 if you exclude the Aeon 2). There's nothing that Focal's pads have that justify a doubling or even tripling of the cost of replacement pads relative to anyone else in the market and they certainly don't have the 'pedigree' in the headphone space to amplify the cost like a high end fashion label would.

    The fact that ZMF can get away with decently priced pads being such a small outfit while Focal charge out the ass and don't even give a single shit about their customers post-purchase is a joke and after talking to multiple companies locally about how they handle warranties etc I don't think they deserve anyone's money until they sort it out.
     
  5. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    Sir it's foam and fabric. For $40 less you can get a new pair of the JBL 305PMKII studio monitors.

    If it's R&D costs or boutique product then maybe $150 is understandable. But the lower end Focals are not boutique products, they're popular AF and selling in tenths of thousands if not hundreds!.

    And their pads design is nothing crazy to indicate crazy R&D investment.

    Some manufacturers will take their actual profit from consumables, like what printers industry is doing. But for Focal they price their headphones appropriately imo so why the f**k the high price for consumables?, it's just their actual greedy ass profit margin.

    I am not demanding them to lower their prices or elect people to make policies for sane prices, it's a capitalist word after all, it's just sad seeing people make excuses for such greedy practices...
     
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  6. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I was thinking of a similar analogy - I order up a high priced call girl yet I am morally incredulous, complaining about "greed" and "irrationality" when right at the climax she asks for an extra $200 to (*% in her mouth?! :p

    Exactly. If I have not said enough allow me to say it again: Focal's high end HP prices are too damn high. Their pads AND their HP's seem to be to be about twice what they should be, although value is relative to each person. If we are just going to bitch about this then fine, a grumble is a just a grumble and there is nothing to say to it or for it.

    If however we are going to talk about how a Focal rig in total make sense (from a SQ, budget, synergy, etc.), you got it all worked out, except for this overpriced pad issue is keeping you from wading in, well that makes no sense at all to me for all the reasons already stated.
     
  7. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Aren't we, the buying public, at least partially to blame for buying at these prices in the first place though? I suppose we can also blame modern marketing and whatever set of mba-ish jargon terms someone else will want to throw around, etc. And maybe the whole supposed aura or mystique of "French luxury" it seems like Focal tries to play into. Blah blah blah. But if Focal can't sell pads at $200, I would imagine they would know lower prices.

    With that being said - a spare pair of pads would be nice to have and I want a pair myself, but they are definitely overpriced at $200 - I'd say the same thing whether I made $20k, $200k, or $2M+ a year - i.e. regardless of relative financial situation.
    On the flip side, @crenca has a valid point though - you kind of know what you're jumping into with Focals... and as much as I wish it wasn't this way, you don't jump into the "high end headphones" game to save money...
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
  8. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Pads are all overpriced. So are replacement parts. Audeze sells a replacement headband that must cost them 10-20$ or something to make for 150$. Hifiman sells theirs for 75$. It’s not like people are buying these as standalone products for other headphones. They are replacement parts. The companies have already made money on the headphone itself. R&D is not a factor here.

    Earpads are cheap to mass produce. I’ve bought a lot of them. Nice leather ones sell on eBay for 15-20$ and that includes profit.

    none of these companies should be making much profit off replacement pads I think it’s extremely distasteful.

    I don’t give a shit about @crenca ’s argument honestly. Whether or not you’re right it’s still bullshit. Comparing it to other bullshit markets doesn’t justify it.

    f**k Focaaaal. I will never buy one even if I had interest in shitty electrodynamics. Everything about their business rubs me the wrong way including how they pronounce their stupid f'ing name.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  9. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    And I do not consider headphones to be consumed and replaced very 5 years. I buy Yamaha orthodynamic headphones that are 40 years old and they are still going strong and once modded properly compete with today’s headphones. I expect headphones to last a long time. They are tools to me not toys. You want a toy buy some Beats.
     
  10. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    @crenca I think your generalizations here are pretty f'ing reductive. Sure I could buy all the random crap I want and be okay financially but it still irks me that Focal prices their accessories the way they do. I don't value pads as a $200 item, regardless of how much I like the headphone. I'm free to spend how I wish and if $200 pads keep me from buying a $1000 headphone but I'm okay spending many times that on another piece of equipment, that's my value judgement to make. Thinking people are stupid for avoiding a brand that prices their accessories like that is absurd.

    I love buying music and things I value. Do I pay a lot for things that I care about? Sure. But f**k that pricing model.
     
  11. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    I think only HiFiMan charge reasonable prices for their replacement pads. ZMF pads are also expensive for people outside America especially for us in Asia.

    For me I think the worst is the HD800 pads. They are about $100 but need replacing about 2 years because the black suede material will flake out.
     
  12. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Not really. Their “harmony” pad is 130$ and their HE1000 pad is 80$. I guarantee they cost the same to make as their cheaper pads. Probably 2$. Or less.

    and they charge 10$ for flimsy little plastic rings to attach their pads which must cost them pennies to make. I’m sort of ok with that because handling costs money. So they need to charge something to pay their workers for putting them in the mail. Way past 10$ profit for this stuff though is a big f**k you.
     
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  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    There, I fixed it for you.
     
  14. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Well, ok, maybe I am underestimating the numbers of folks who like yourself have a principled objection to Focal's pad price in particular, all other considerations be damned. I do find it somewhat odd with TOTL (or near) HP's in what is a luxury market and thus basically the antithesis of principles, and for which the only real rational is "can I afford this now?", and where other real costs are so much greater. I have several principled objections against MQA, but at the end of the day I still subscribe to Tidal because I want what I want. Perhaps as well I am underestimating the number of folks for whom Focal's are a limit case in regards to their budget, and that $100 overcharge really is the tipping point. Still, hard to believe that both of these categories of folks add up to anything more than a minority. I suspect there is a larger group who are overweighing the cost of these pads in their rational, or just bitching, and for whom these Focals are not a real consideration in the first place.
     
  15. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Besides being a hobby (different presentations and levels of technical ability) headphones and associated gear are tools for enjoying music.

    They're fun to play with, but at the end of the day there simply comes a point where it's untenable spending a few hundred every couple years on maintenance; I'd make the argument that fancy cars suffer the same idiocy of upkeep but at least they're more utilitarian (after a fashion...). The luxury tax on Focal gear was what initially put me off their line back when the Elear and Utopias made up the entirety of their premium headphones, though ironically enough they aren't even the only ones charging $200 for replacement pads and this dumbass over here ended up with one too lmao. See: profile pic.

    I agree with @crenca in broad strokes but also feel that while the market is grand for how many great value options there are now (for the record: I count Grados and HD6X0 pads as being kinda pricey too because of how quickly they wear out!), the upper tiers are pricing themselves up their own butts because of all the people who happily pay their artificially inflated costs. This isn't going to stop or go away any time soon as far as I can tell because as @zerodeefex noted even when they're running out of money some people simply grow accustomed to a certain standard of lavishness, but given how things are nowadays one would hope that things even out over time.

    TL;DR
    Buy Beyerdynamics and mod them until you don't mind the sound; those things are tanks and smooshed pads actually do them worlds of good. You're probably leaving a big ol chungus of performance on the table but that's a small price to pay for peace of mind :rolleyes:
     
  16. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    If only that were possible...
     
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  17. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Kind of back on the topic of helping us save some money on these things - realistically speaking, is it likely that any particular or even all of the dealers are going to want to dump Clear pads for ~50% off anytime sooner or later?

    If one dealer is doing $50 off so soon after discontinuation, I would imagine others may follow soon... or did most of them make enough $ during covid-stay-at-home that they don't care about $1k here and there from parts sales anymore?
     
  18. Roderick

    Roderick Facebook Friend

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    Focal pads are overpriced but what makes it worse is that those are not that great pads. Utopia is expensive luxury item that has build and material quality that pretty much matches the asking price compared to similarly priced headphones. However that quality does not extend to pads.

    There is a known problem with goo seeping out underneath the pads. Glue quality overall is not that great and pad can be seperated from the mounting ring if one removes the pads the wrong way. Mounting ring system is not that great either. Sometimes when the pads are inserted they're not pushed all the way in even though it looks and feels like they are. Pads really need to dig in there and if it's even slightly of there will be slight channel imbalance. Same thing is known to happen with Stellia and propably with all Focals. There is no "click" to tell you that the pads are 100% correctly on place. Pads are just not overpriced but it's bad design and poor quality.

    Verum 1 has pad attached with a magnet ring. That ring can be removed so whenever pads need replacement same rign can be used. Fact that $350 headphone has way better pad system than utopia(or pretty much every headphone) is just fucked up.

    I also tried to check what is the price for utopia pads in EU. With quick search I could not find a single retailer that has them in stock. Price is propably 249€ because it is £249 in UK. That is measly $342 for a set of earpads. Nice.
     
  19. Huhnkopf

    Huhnkopf Friend

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    Yeah, it's almost printer toner money levels but you at least get a good "printer" with the Utopia and their pricing scheme is consistent across their portfolio. Still, 250 Dollars pads, 1k headband (iirc) if broken (never happened to me but I've seen people throw their kilobuck headphones onto the ouch when messing with various headphones) is what puts me off so I just don't buy that shit.

    Now can we draw our attention to the FIVE HUNDRED DOLLAR Abyss pads?
     
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  20. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    not a fair comparison because printer companies don’t make sustainable profits from printer sales alone. If they did they’d have to change much more. The cost of the ink is a part of the cost of owning the printer and factored into their necessary bottom line.

    Not so with Focaaaaaal. They make a hefty, sustainable profit off the Utopia and ripping people off for replacement earpads is just a bonus check.
     

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