Focal Utopia Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. Audio Zenith

    Audio Zenith Custom Title KGB

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    I think they sound exactly how they measure (that's by the way how it should be ;-). What works amazingly well to their advantage is some unique technical aspects of their driver, such as light and rigid diaphragm, extremely powerful motor and clever suspension. Combined with unique coupler openness they seem to make it much easier for our brain to adapt to their sound signature which gets presented with no perceptible hick-ups. In other words it basically follows the given recording perfectly while still rendering it in its own way. No wonder Tyll couldn't wrap his head around these for a while, there seems to be no other headphone being able to pull this trick with such grace.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  2. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    That only begs the question which of the 3 very different looking measurements ;)?

    @ultrabike How high does your mic go? Can you measure the ultrasonic resonance frequency?* I forgot to measure it, but I'm always curious to see if that measurement tells us something about the sound. Also I'd like to see the open air measurements. Maybe it's a good idea to take off the earpads for that. I'm pretty sure that the driver will measure less smooth than the HD800 driver.

    EDIT:*(Won't work with REW since it's limited to a 48kHz sample rate. You can use ARTA and you don't have to buy it.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  3. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    REW can go as high as 96 kHz sampling rate, and even higher if the soundcard supports it. I've done this for amplifier and DAC measurements. One needs to play with the number of samples though. The higher the sampling rate the higher the number of samples in order to get low frequency meaningful data. The number of samples also caps at some point.

    I don't think the mic goes that high though. I also don't think you are going to get much out of ultrasonic measurements from a driver unless the driver distorts in the audio range when exited by ultrasonics. I can try though.

    I can do some open air measurements again. But they are a PITA right now. I have some ideas that could work well though. It would require some baffle tricks and IR manipulation, though I need to think about how to deal with distortion measurements (I also have some ideas about this). IR manipulation in this case would be a bit more complex than just getting the minimum phase IR of the compensation.
     
  4. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    True, I forgot that because it doesn't work using Java input or something. But with ASIO drivers it will work. I will probably check that later since I have ASIO drivers installed for my soundcard.
    And yes, you need longer sweeps to still get meaningful low freq data. ARTA is particularly limited in that case (256k max I believe) but REW goes to 1m which should be sufficient for 96k or even 192k measurements.

    The WM-61A (1/4" mic) still has decent ultrasonic extension. OJNeg posted measurements to 50kHz with the SR-L700 somewhere. I would say most 1/4" capsules in the cheap omni measurement mics should be similar, but I can't say. While I don't think the FR will be accurate above 20kHz, you will easily get enough SNR to see a big 10db resonance.
    This is what I'm wondering. Do ultrasonic measurements have any meaning for perceived sound quality? I think it might be possible that ultrasonic measurements can tell us something about the perceived sound quality in the audioband, but not because of the ultrasonic output itself, but because of driver changes that affect both the sound and the measurements in the ultrasonic region. And because I'm curious if Focal's claims are true. From what I've gathered the Utopia resonant frequency might be quite a bit higher than what I predicted before.
    I think it can't be a bad thing if a driver has great measurements way past the human hearing, at least if other areas weren't compromised for it.

    I liked the results when still using my absorbing coupler baffle and holding the headphones a few cm away from it. You can also try to isolate the driver even more and not use a mic baffle but for that you would have to gate before the early reflections. IME reflections became a big issue when I tried to measure the driver alone in my room, but might be better in a bigger room. I might measure them outdoors some day.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  5. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    IME there is a correlation, but it's not a major indicator.
     
  6. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Yes, essentially what I was thinking.

    Will be interesting to see more measurements and possibly correlate to different sonic qualities.
    (I know, someone, somewhere is probably shouting "correlation doesn't imply causation" or something like that. I'm really just curious what the measurements will tell.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  7. takato14

    takato14 God of Ruin

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    Liking the FR, but that CSD is rather bad for something so expensive. Glad I skipped the loaner for these, they probably would've just pissed me off.
     
  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    The Elear, and I'd assume the Utopia, have this weird anomaly where they show some interesting CSD characteristics but don't seem to match up subjectively.

    I would say you still should have tried them. I don't think this many SBAFers could be that wrong about them.

    I mean, unless you get mad at anything that isn't a vintage ortho. :)
     
  9. takato14

    takato14 God of Ruin

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    If a $4000 headphone isn't as clean as the HD800, I'm gonna be a bit miffed regardless.
     
  10. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    When speaking about the Utopia with Serious that was also my conclusion. The measurement might not look ideal but the sound, oh deary me.

    Focal hit a home run with the sound of the Utopia.
     
  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Well you would probably be singing a different tune if you heard before seeing measurements.

    That said the asking price is high regardless. Just wish you'd give them a shot sometime. Measurements aren't always 100% correlative.
     
  12. takato14

    takato14 God of Ruin

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    jokes aside, I'd love to

    but what if I like them
     
  13. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    If you can afford them, buy them. If not, know that Focal makes a headphone that sounds better than many other headphones with a humble 40mm dynamic driver.

    Even a vintage audio nut like you has to appreciate progress...
     
  14. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Well...maybe the Elear with other pads might be close enough. I'll compare tomorrow. :)
     
  15. takato14

    takato14 God of Ruin

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    Its tomorrow

    ;)

    Also, are the Utopia pads available for separate purchase then? I was kind of assuming Focal wouldn't dare make them available separately given how similar the two designs are and how much earpads affect the sound of headphones.
     
  16. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I don't think they're available for separate purchase, no. I just got home, so thoughts will come later tonight or tomorrow.
     
  17. MuppetFace

    MuppetFace Sultana of Seafoam Green - Moderator

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    I've been wondering why these headphones have stumped me: there's something elusive about them, and I think you've put into words what I've been thinking for a while now.
     
  18. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    On second thought, now that I've used sources, DACs, amps, and music I'm more familiar with, I might be in the vast minority to find the Utopias tuned too bright. Good bass, good mids, treble is somewhat splashy and bright...albeit less rough than stock Elear. Smoother sounding than HD800. Somewhere in between 650 and 800 tonally, but you all know I lean very closely to the 650 sound. Both the Utopia and Elear seem to be very strong in most other technical areas, ignoring tonal balance, to the point I was left wanting more for the asking price on the Utopia. (I know, already working away, digging the hole for my grave.)

    That said, I do still think the headphones sound cleaner than CSDs suggest in any case with the Focals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  19. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    @Hands, what amp do you think synergizes most with both Focal HPs?
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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