Focal Utopia Review (collective stream of consciousness)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Aug 25, 2016.

  1. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Kameleon is an harware EQ. not more not less. I'm using EQ but the 5 bands PEQ in my RME ADI2 pro.

    EQed (and/or modded but I don't know a mod able to fix the 4khz dip) HD800 for sure is much righter (compared to a Stock HD800 ) tonally speaking so the major flaw of the Sennheiser is somewhat fixed so it let us enjoy more all his best points.

    I personally prefer a modded/EQed HD800 to the Utp. I sold the Focal after two month mostly because of the claustrophobic "tunnel" soundstage, the overdone HifiĀ© tuning and the fatigue induced but high mids/treble. I still think the Utopia is amazingly fast and reproduces all percussive stuff very very well . it wasn't enough to make me prefer it to the Senn though.

    It's always down to priorities and preferences. The Senn still makes me enjoy more my music and by a fair margin whereas the Utopia impressed me at first before to annoy me to the point I couldn't listen to it anymore. Seems I'm not alone to reach the same conclusion. A lot of people are still in love with their focal though :)

    By the way, you tell us you hated the HD800. In my opinion, it should be enough to decide between Utp and HD800. even modded and or EQed a HD800 is still a HD800 and won't suddenly become anything else than a hd800

    My 2 cents.
     
  2. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    I saw a few people mention that even a modded HD800 still isn't as neutral as the Utopia, but I just don't think that's the case. It's a matter of personal preference, but the flat plate coupler measurements just don't match my subjective impressions.

    So did the Utopia also have the massive 4kHz dip?


    HD800 modded IF measurements: HD800 noTarget.png
    Utopia IF measurements:
    Utopia noTarget.png
    Stock HD800 has less 1-3kHz compared to the modded one, especially around 2kHz, but a similar level at 4kHz.

    Apart from the 1.3kHz bump and the bass boost the Utopia has I honestly found the Utopia and the modded HD800 more comparable than not FR-wise.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  3. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    @Serious
    Besides the bass and 1.3KHz bumps, the 4KHz may contribute to the fatiguing factor of the Utopia. Plus, IIRC, the Utopia measurements at IF is from that first review unit Tyll got, which was known to less bright than most Utopias. Thus, in reality, many Utopia phones have a distinctively different sound from 800 mod. This is not to ignore the peaks remaining with the latter. Who knows how far we are away from having a phone with an ideal frequency response profile.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Doesn't matter. No one should ever resort to opamp based EQ to fix an HD800. That's like throwing a O2 into the middle of the chain.

    If someone hates stock HD800 and already likes Utopia, they are better off getting a Utopia if there is a good deal than mod or EQ an HD800 just to save a bit and hope it works. The Utopia can always be further improved with EQ, preferably with DEQ, or maybe even physical mods, very little of which has been explored.
     
  5. frenchbat

    frenchbat Almost "Made"

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    The cups of the Utopia are already pretty optimized. The driver's position for instance, is angled in the cups, and I doubt beveled pads would yield any improvement on the soundstage front.

    Some damping might help for those who are bothered by the metallic resonance though.
     
  6. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    Nope, that FR isn't. That's the one from the LCD4UtopiaMeasurements.pdf (page 6) that Tyll now linked in the 'Headphone Measurements' page. The other Utopia measured warmer than Katz' LCD4.

    I think both measurements are representative of the phones and I think both are pretty damn close to what I'd call ideal.

    There's a bit of a resonance around 4kHz, yes. But I think most of the fatigue comes from the treble peaks higher up and the fact that there's a big, highly reflective metal disk right next to your ears.
     
  7. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    I'm using Peace/APO to equalize on my windows box. Kind of bugs me that the Utopia needs a touch of equalization, I'd prefer a physical mod (or no mod needed of course), but whatever. Getting over the 'equalization is bad' thinking opens up a whole new world of quick/cheap tweaking.
     
  8. TomNC

    TomNC Friend

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    Considering Schiit seems likely to produce a multi-band (like 15 or more) EQ interface, there is a chance we will have some good, easy to use EQ tool before long for phones like Utopia.
     
  9. sorrodje

    sorrodje Carla Bruni's other lover - Friend

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    Dunno, I never tried to listen to sweeps with my Utp.

    My HD800SDR EQ profile is made by ears, I listen to sweeps, try to make things more even and I check with music. I used a lot of iterations sweep/music/sweep/... to tune my settings for my HD800SDR and finally I'm using something like + 3db @40hz +3db @4khz , -3db @5khz and -5 db @10khz to make my HD800SDR sounds perfect to my ears. with the SDR, the peak is more around 5khz and not much bothersome to be honest. 10khz one is more agressive and EQ helps for that one. but the bigger fix is the 4khz bump . it makes a quite big change in my experience and no shortcomings. In the bass, + 3-4 db around 40hz is enough. More is too much. I tried +5 but it sounded unatural whereas +3 or 4 db adds a discrete heft to the low bass. Sounds great like that.

    I took measurement to check if distorsion was affected and with small fixes , distorsion is basically unchanged from what I remember. I need to redo them and save them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  10. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    When Schiit makes a multi-band balanced equalizer, I'll be buying it the day it is available. Those old days of OP amp noisy equalizers are... old days/news. Transducers are most often crap when it comes to flat response, so no problem with equalization, if it's done right.
     
  11. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    thats a good way to put it. the utopia are so damn dynamic and fast, its like having a speaker right in your ears. the hd800 are smoother. the percussions on the utopia really pops out, the hd800 are obviously less responsive

    personally, without bass boost via hardware EQ or via my ifi audio analog Xbass feature, i couldnt live with the hd800. the hd800 needs modifications, bass boost, the utopia are nice as is.
     
  12. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    Yea, personally I am good with the lean bass on the Utopia. When bass does come through it's clean, clear, detailed. I'm still likely to buy the Klipsch heritage HPs for those times I'm in a bass head mood, but that's what is so great about headphones, you don't have to live with just one set of cans.

    My issue with the Utopia is that they do have a ?metallic/electronica? tonal signature, and while they are insanely dynamic and clear, even with EQ there is no entirely erasing that metallic/electronica personality. I get an hour or two worth of enjoyment out of them per day, and then that's enough. I feel wiped out.
     
  13. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    damn, thats sucks to be wiped out. Maybe try a NOS R2R dac. they are bit smoother then the Yggdrasil and might suit better the Utopia. i dunno I can listen all day to either the hd800 modded or utopia or hd650. im also in a mood where i dont think about how it sounds anymore and simply enjoy the music I listen with them without thinking if it sounds right or not.
    what really comes out when i listen to utopia is how clean percussion sound, how dynamic everything is, how resolving the treble is. my fav cans for sure
     
  14. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Have you spent quality time with the SR007? If yes, how does the Utopia compare?
     
  15. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    never heard a pair of stax. kinda of scared to venture there for my wallet.

    would love to know what people think of stax vs hd800/utopia myself.
     
  16. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    I spent some time at the last Albuquerque meet listing to @JimL 's 007 and 009 through some Stax amps he modded. Somewhat as expected, the Stax sounded airier and the Utopia more dynamic. I preferred the 007 to the 009, but that also might be amp dependent. Detail retrieval in all of them was excellent. Both had very tight bass, but I think the Utopia's bass was a bit more impactful. It was more than 6 months ago, so hard to remember exactly. I think if you are listing to classical, the Stax might be better. Utopia might be better for rock. For Rap and EDM, get some Beats (since that ain't music anyways :)

    I remember thinking that my Koss 950's were no Stax 007's, but the 950 gives me what I need for that electrostat sound. I did borrow a few of Jim's amps and had them at home for a few weeks, and they are definitely better than the amp the 950 comes with, but it was subtle for me. If classical were my primary genre, I would probably own Stax rather then the Utopia.
     
  17. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Thanks for the impressions!
     
  18. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Oh, the SR-007 <3
    I still remmber my audition of the MK1 and the BHSE...just sublime and flawless (for my taste, of course), need to finish my studies and get a good job.
    Thanks for the impressions!
     
  19. Muse Wanderer

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    Naah, I am a classical nut and the Utopia is so much better for classical than Stax SR-009 via BHSE.

    The Stax creates this ethereal airy heavenly sound that does NOT sound like a real live concert. It is great mind you, VERY addictive and jaw dropping. I was amazed at how Bach's St Matthew's Passion was rendered. It felt like being in the presence of angels as I listened to the opening movements. However there was such a lack of dynamics and impact compared to the Utopia. It just sounded lifeless.

    Classical is probably the genre of music that relies on excellent micro and macro dynamics. Utopia wins by a long stretch in my books. Treble timbre may be a bit steely (shall I say beryllius) compared to the smoothness of my speaker reference (wooden Voxativ drivers). However it is bearable on well chosen DACs and amps that treat treble kindly. That said, speakers are better, but that is a different story altogether.
     
  20. Darren G

    Darren G Friend

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    This is a very good way to put it. It's not overbearing, but that steely tonal character is there. Sometimes I barely notice, other times it gets on my nerves. It's a reasonable trade off for the dynamics and detail retrieval, but yep you explained it well. The Utopia does a lot well that makes them exceptional, but for me after listening a while, that steel tonal character tends to become annoying. Again, there are no perfect transducers, so pick you trade-offs.
     

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