Geek Wave final(?) development discussion - aka "please lord let it ship!"

Discussion in 'Product Announcements' started by mscott58, Oct 26, 2017.

?

When will the Geek Wave ship by?

  1. January 2018

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. April 2018

    3 vote(s)
    2.1%
  3. July 2018

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  4. October 2018

    2 vote(s)
    1.4%
  5. Sometime in 2019

    13 vote(s)
    9.3%
  6. Who the heck knows - I've given up hope

    24 vote(s)
    17.1%
  7. What's the Geek Wave again?

    56 vote(s)
    40.0%
  8. Never

    41 vote(s)
    29.3%
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  1. Warrior

    Warrior RIP 2021

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    October of what year? Lol.
     
  2. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Let's says this goes on three or four years more, every time users push you deliver a timeline that's missed, to what end? Are you a learning AI bot?
     
  3. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    It must be a very wierd job, all this I was told, listen, repeat. Can't be much fun. Especially as, if you have any sense of reality left, you know that it is largely bullshit.

    But hey, (assuming you get paid) we all have bills to pay.

    And where is that Larry what's-his-name? Has he morphed into the shape of a face on the wall? How long before he actually admits defeat? Like, sorry guys, I honestly tried; I spent all the cash trying; and failed.

    I might not feel the same if he had any of my cash, but I could respect that more than this month-after-month, year-after-year string-along. And for what? A portable music player. Hardly a never-before-thought-of technology breakthrough. Whoa: something to put in your pocket and get music in your ears. Oh, right: another thing to put in your pocket and get music in your ears. Even if it is better. It failed to be better: it failed to exist.

    With all due respect to those whose money is just waiting for the chain to be finally pulled, isn't it time this was put out of its misery?

    It seems that he used to be a real live human member here. But now the LH-Labs bot. All part of the tragedy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  4. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    Given what I've seen, I am utterly surprised that someone hasn't sued the ever living shit out of LH for this whole thing. Further, it seems plausible to me someone could/should serve jail time for fraud. I honestly can't fathom why that hasn't happened yet.
     
  5. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    Because it's IGG, not Kickstarter. IGG basically exists to build in that wiggle room. They tightened things up a little bit since the Wave campaign ran but still.
     
  6. Warrior

    Warrior RIP 2021

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    IGG doesn't mean shit in the legal picture. If a company defrauds people, they will not be protected by IGG or any agreement you have with IGG. I can't believe nobody has consulted with an attorney on this.
     
  7. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    I expect Nicaragua to enrich uranium before this thing gets built.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  8. No_One411

    No_One411 Fired by Jude

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    If it makes you guys feel any better, I have like $2000 worth of stuff from the original Pulse kickstarter back in 2013 that I'll probably never see.
     
  9. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    Where'd the money go? Pocketed? Failed/inefficient product development? Subsidizing other products?
     
  10. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    The money yes is an important factor, but a lot of people put their faith in LH labs to complete/expand/start their system and these porkers threw a wrench in the whole plan, mine included. Even worse who knows how long this has been covered up, at least two years by the looks of it. These guys deserve testicles on their shoulders.
    Plus unless Larry is in the US no lawsuit can really touch him.
     
  11. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Really sorry. Probably most of the people in this thread stand to loose very real money.

    Only fair to reiterate that I don't. I came in here from curiosity, and because flagrant abuse of consumer "rights" heats my blood. Let me just call that consumer abuse, as the word "rights," even in quotes, is the route to all sorts of legal and pseudo-legal stuff.

    It seems like a substantial amount was raised, but could it last four years of so-called product development, [attempted] sourcing of parts, etc etc... etc?
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  12. Warrior

    Warrior RIP 2021

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    Isn't he in California, Sacremento?
     
  13. Bina

    Bina MOT - Shanling

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    Well, while LH Labs is stuck in limbo, Light Harmonics is still going on, with new release of the infamous IEMs just recently. Just pointing out the facts...
     
  14. Mike_WI

    Mike_WI New

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    (don't know if this is allowed, but here goes...)

    These posts were deleted by moderators on HeadFi....

    MIKE_WI (me):

    Well, I finally googled this.
    This would be a reason to continue saying something is available in 4-6 weeks and repeating that...
    (I'm not a lawyer)

    California Contract Law Statute of Limitations
    by Grygor Scott
    https://smallbusiness.chron.com/california-contract-law-statute-limitations-15480.html

    California law requires a plaintiff to file a lawsuit arising from a contract within a certain period after a defendant's alleged breach of contract or other occurrence that establishes the basis of the plaintiff's lawsuit. One defense available to defendants in a contract case is to show that the statute of limitations has expired, which bars the plaintiff from filing the lawsuit. California statutes specify the statute of limitations periods for contract-related lawsuits.

    Statute of Limitations
    Nolo's Plain-English Law Dictionary defines a statute of limitations as the "legally prescribed time limit in which a lawsuit must be filed." Legislatures establish time limits for initiating lawsuits primarily because evidence becomes less trustworthy as time passes. California attorney Ralph Warner observes, "memories fade, witnesses die or move away, and once clear details become blurred." California and other states have a public interest in ensuring fair trials, and a statute of limitations for contract lawsuits supports that goal.

    Oral Contracts
    Section 339 of California's Code of Civil Procedure establishes a two-year statute of limitations for oral contracts. It requires a plaintiff to file a lawsuit within two years of the alleged breach, or similar event, of an oral contract. California courts will enforce an oral contract unless a statute requires it to be a written contract. For example, Section 7159 of California's Business & Professional Code requires home-improvement contracts between an owner and a contractor to be in writing. Proving the terms of an oral contract at trial, however, typically requires witnesses or other compelling evidence.

    Written Contracts
    Section 337 of California's Code of Civil Procedure establishes a four-year statute of limitations for most written contracts. It requires a plaintiff to file a lawsuit within four years of the alleged breach, or similar event, of a written contract. This section, however, specifies that a two-year statute of limitations applies to certain written contracts involving real-estate titles and title insurance.


    Tolling
    Even if the California statute of limitations appears to have expired, certain circumstances suspend, or toll, it for a period. If one of the parties has been in prison, Section 352.1 California's Code of Civil Procedure suspends the statute of limitations up to two years. California law also suspends the statute of limitations if a party leaves the state or is a minor. Courts will also suspend the statute of limitations in rare circumstances if suspension is required to ensure justice in the case.


    Contracts Stipulating a Statute of Limitations
    California courts allow contracting parties to include a term in the contract that shortens the state's statutory statute of limitations period. California attorneys Allyssa J. Holcomb and Henry R. Stiepel assert, "any provision shortening a statute of limitations ... is valid if it is reasonable---i.e., the shortened period still provides sufficient time to effectively pursue a judicial remedy."


    ////////////////////////////////

    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/light-harmonic-geek-wave.713829/page-311#post-14451018

    ChrisSC:

    Hi all, lawyer checking in. Many moons ago, I was on the verge of backing this (had the perk boxes checked and everything) and for reasons mostly based on morbid curiosity, I check in on this thread every now and again.
    Agree with @Mike-WI that LH is likely stalling to run out the statute of limitations. You'd need to look at the language of the campaign contract to see what state law applies, since the length of time isn't universal among all 50 states. You'd also want to determine the applicable statute of limitations for fraud and embezzlement because if you were to actually litigate this, you'd want to sue for those claims in addition to breach of contract.

    W/ regards to beach of contract:
    I'd have to look at the original Indie-Go campaign to see what stage of development LH claimed the Geekwave to be in at the time it began crowdfunding, because if LH claimed to be further along then it actually was, then you can argue that you never entered into a binding contract- LH's claim was a material representation that induced you to crowdfund the project and you would not have otherwise agreed to pay LH to fund the Geekwave. The contract was for you to pay LH a certain amount of money to back the Geekwave, which was already at a certain stage of pre-production according to Gavin, in exchange for LH providing you a Geekwave once complete. Indie-Go's lawsuit waiver wouldn't apply, since its a part of a contract that you never entered into.

    W/ regards to fraud:
    For that same reason above, you can argue fraud in the inducement. LH misrepresented how far along the Geekwave was in development, causing you to pay them and be defrauded. There's no way the backer-agreement can force you to waive rights to sue on the basis of being defrauded, such a clause would be found void as against public policy, so you'd likely be able to move forward with this claim.

    W/ regards to embezzlement:
    Possible embezzlement because through discovery you might determine that your money wasn't used to fund the Geekwave, but was used for Gavin's personal use, etc. You'd want to read the Indie-Go contract though to see if that's permissible (it probably isn't).

    Couple other loose ends: I'd be concerned that if you sue, Gavin would file a bankruptcy, which would wipe out your claims - if found liable for fraud though, your claims should survive (again, you'd want to see what the applicable state's law is - I practice in California, and that's the case here).

    You might also consider going to the district attorney to see if interested in filing criminal charges, although they may not since have a much higher evidentiary standard (to be found guilty of a crime, the standard of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt," whereas liable for civil claim is just "more likely than not").

    None of this is intended as legal advice, but some preliminary analysis for those who find this stuff interesting. I can't really get much further without cracking open the actual contract, and without a stake in this fiasco, there's no way I'm reading something incredibly boring, lengthy, and chock-full of legalese. Having said all of the above-- Backers: I wish you all the best in navigating this misadventure, and LH: get your sh*t together before this gets bad.

    ////////////////////////////////

    wingsounds13 said:
    This was not a sale of product, it was an investment venture through the tool (good word there) of crowd funding. Investor beware.
    Assumption of the risk is only a valid affirmative defense if the risk was disclosed. If LH claimed to be further along then they were, then they concealed the actual risk, which the backers never agreed to take on. So the defense fails.

    ChrisSC:
    Straight from the horse’s mouth, yes you can sue LH:
    “We always encourage our community to resolve disputes without turning to litigation, but if you're still not satisfied with the alternative you're offered, you can use our Terms of Use to bring a suit against the campaigner.”
    https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en...What-happens-to-my-money-if-a-campaign-fails-

    wingsounds13 said:
    Whatever, we're all screwed because there is no money left to refund or extract. Other than closing LH Labs down (already happening anyway) and maybe putting Larry and/or Gavin in jail, our only real choice is to wait and see if/when they actually deliver. At this point I am no longer holding my breath.


    ChrisSC:
    Maybe, which is why you’d want to retain legal counsel on a contingency fee basis to find out. If I remember correctly, LH raised upwards of $2million and I’d guess all of their electronic equipment’s also worth something; the sooner you sue, the more likely there will still be assets to recover from. Fraudulent conveyance laws also prevent shifting assets between companies/persons to avoid paying debts and would be triggered by a lawsuit.

    * edited to add information and subtract snark. I’ve spent my career as an attorney, so it’s a personal pet peeve when someone who isn’t a lawyer and doesn’t know the law tells me I’m wrong about it.
     
  15. Warrior

    Warrior RIP 2021

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    Couldn't agree more. See my earlier post, I said the same exact thing. Stalling, waiting for statute of limitations to run out. Guys, go see a f'ing lawyer. Number one, it's free. Number two, by looking at the number of people defrauded, you may find an attorney that will do some background research on Larry, see if he is worth suiing. If he is, to me, this is an open and shut case. I'd even wager an attorney would represent everyone that bought into this f'ing nightmare and take it on contingency. Worst case, with the number of backers, it might be a very reasonable fee. f**k, I'd honestly donate money to the cause, just because f**k him for stealing, lying, and f'ing with people.

    Bottom line, go see an attorney for a free consultation. I've mentioned fraud, and Although harddto prove, it can be proven, and this looks like a open and shut case of it. IIRC, if fraud is proved, people may be entitled to treble (no, not that type of treble) damages. I'm not an attorney, but I've been involved in business since my father first brought me into his around age 11. I've learned a lot over the years, and I've seen a f**k ton of fuckery, and this is straight up fuckery. Go see an attorney. If anyone wants one, you can call the local bar association. I might even be able to rec a good few, depending on the states. I've seen my fair share of courtrooms, criminal (my young wild and crazy days), civil, and corporate cases. Get them before the statuette of lims expires, I know that's what they are trying to do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  16. JK47

    JK47 Guest

  17. Warrior

    Warrior RIP 2021

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    Nice find. Definitely relates, and offers hope I'd say. Especially since he hasn't disappeared yet, and still has his other company.
     
  18. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    He changed me into a cat.. but I got better.
     
  19. Warrior

    Warrior RIP 2021

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    @LHCommSquad are you stuck limo on head-fi? Just curious. People seem to like you, which makes me wonder why work for Larry? I feel for you too, as I would not want to have your job. Dealing with the public is difficult enough, and hard enough to make people happy in normal business, let alone one tied to such a f'ing mess.
     
  20. roscoeiii

    roscoeiii Acquaintance

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    Yes, my understanding is that stuck_limo and LHCommSquad are the same person.
     
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