Geek Wave final(?) development discussion - aka "please lord let it ship!"

Discussion in 'Product Announcements' started by mscott58, Oct 26, 2017.

?

When will the Geek Wave ship by?

  1. January 2018

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. April 2018

    3 vote(s)
    2.7%
  3. July 2018

    1 vote(s)
    0.9%
  4. October 2018

    2 vote(s)
    1.8%
  5. Sometime in 2019

    13 vote(s)
    11.6%
  6. Who the heck knows - I've given up hope

    22 vote(s)
    19.6%
  7. What's the Geek Wave again?

    44 vote(s)
    39.3%
  8. Never

    27 vote(s)
    24.1%
  1. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    I think there are a few things happening here.

    First, the (very understandable) backlash to LHL as a business entity and their historically poor communication and project management.

    Second, Jarek receiving that backlash as the communications representative of the entity. You were not present or involved with any of the decisions that led to all this hostility and ill will - in fact, you have been subject to them as a backer yourself, if I understand correctly. And you are not suddenly enriched by your position. It sounds like a modest part-time position.

    So, on the one hand, Jarek isn't the reason we don't have Waves.
    On the other hand, as Larry only speaks through Jarek (and rarely at that), people are going to hurl all their anger at Jarek.
    And Jarek is not posting as an individual, but as the LH Comm Squad. So people treat his account as such.

    So, Jarek, I know how it feels to have strangers be really rude to you and being defensive is natural. However, at this point, taunts are best left ignored.
    Everyone else, let's keep in mind the business vs. the individual posting.

    Ok. Everyone behaving now?

    In response to this:

    Right on the money. Updates are appreciated. However, I was really taken aback by the most recent update. Measurements on the AP analyzer? Working on circuit board layout? Yes, very impressive numbers. But for a product that still is missing several major components that may or may not ever be secured, given that Larry has been trying to secure them for months (years?) on end.

    So, as the messenger to and from LH Labs, please pass on the following:
    • Backers want information directly tied to moving forward on production of the Wave.
    • The only thing we want to hear is information related to the production process and order fulfillment. Design information is only desired insofar as knowing it will move production forward. i.e. "the screen samples have been integrated with the circuit board and fit well into the case, graphics are working, we are locking down the contract to acquire enough for the Waves."
    • I know you can only provide information that Larry gives. The problem is, he is not giving information that we want to hear.
    • We all know Larry makes great products. We all know they measure well. He has demonstrated them in updates over the years. Repeating these things does not help.
    • You might be thinking "well, then I can only post an update once a month saying Larry is going back to China to try to secure ____ component." That is a huge problem! But not because of communications! It's because those components have still not been secured after however many emails and trips. Waiting three weeks for his trip, then a week while he does it, then the update afterwards is "no, I could not secure the component" is unacceptable. That's a month!
    • You cannot make Larry change his business approach. Maybe he will continue in this way indefinitely to get his dream screen. But maybe it looks bad to backers because it IS bad.
    • Again, NONE of us are concerned with the audio performance of the Wave. I fully believe the current circuit board sounds great, and that the production board will too. The only thing I care about is the Wave getting made.
    • I fully understand you cannot give another date that will just be missed. It would anger the backers even more. However, we can't even narrow it down to a year at this point. Most of us are thinking 2019. But what if those components never get secured?
    • First, decisions need to be made to move the process forward.
    • Then, estimates need to be made internally as to what year it will go to backers. Move forward aggressively on production. Then, a six month window. Move forward aggressively on production. Then a quarter. Move forward aggressively on production. Then more precise times. All based on actual secured components, contracts and timelines with manufacturers.
     
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  2. Kunlun

    Kunlun cat-alyzes cat-aclysmic cat-erwauling - Friend

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    @Azteca and other folks who have posted, you are all making really thoughtful posts. Much appreciated.

    Jerek, however, is basically only posting what LH is sending out in emails (and on the LH board), and he is a turd. He's not in any meaningful way contributing anything as most of us likely already get updates, which, as has been noted, are fairly worthless anyway.

    I'll take over for Jerek. For any LH updates that come out, I'll just copy/paste them here, or at least post a link, just as Jerek has been doing. No more whines about harrassment, no more BS questioning what sort of website we want or whatever.

    P.S. I highly doubt Jerek has Larry's ear. Maybe the best thing would be to bring @LarryHo into the discussion directly. Larry, you may not see this for a while, but, please do chime in. Although we may be understandably frustrated with the progress of the Geekwave, I know we'll all be appreciative and interested in whatever you have to share.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  3. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I once backed a smartwatch on Kickstarter. For a while we got a lot of updates and things were looking good. Then the number of updates dropped and when we would get updates, they were about relatively trivial components that were not going to get the watch any closer to production. Eventually the updates just stopped. The guy running the campaign was found selling doodads on his own website, likely funded with the money he got from the Kickstarter.

    Now, I’m not saying Larry is on the level of that charlatan, but after four years if all you’re getting are trivial updates, that does not inspire much confidence and feels like stalling.
     
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  4. LHCommSquad

    LHCommSquad MOT - LH Labs

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    I do care though (and those of you who personally know me know this and what I do), and I think Larry is starting to see more updates and information = a good thing. Part of why the last update was so big. I/he tried to cram every bit of information we had available into the posts. Did some things people wanted to hear get left out? Probably, but not maliciously.

    This goes back into what I've mentioned before to people: no matter what type of updates we have, they won't please everyone. Here the complaints we get about the updates:

    1. There's not enough
    2. There's too many
    3. How dare you provide ANY updates and you should stop ALL updates unless it's a shipping date
    4. "This update doesn't apply to me. What's the shipping date?"

    What are we supposed to do with that? We're required by IGG to provide updates. OK, we do that. "It's not enforced!" Fair point. Then we provide updates out of upholding our end of the promise to backers. Then we get more complaints. We can't win.

    Judging by the numbers on this last update, this was in our top 2 most well received updates. So, we must have done SOMETHING that SOMEONE wanted to see. We also stated in this update that since this testing was done, the boards can now move to the software team. This update/these steps were a vital part of the development/beta testing/building process for the first beta units to exist. We're not going to apologize for putting out relevant information to backers, regardless of what some do/don't want to see, and we already stated that this step was finalized and we were able to move on to the next now, fulfilling your (and others') criteria.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  5. LHCommSquad

    LHCommSquad MOT - LH Labs

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    No, we're not providing shipping dates, because we don't know yet. LH was in the past guilty of making promises they couldn't keep, and their credibility went down the toilet as a result. Unfortunately, we may have to clamp down even harder on the Source updates, because there have been delays and we adjusted our shipping timeframe on those (again).

    So, you're right, we're basically screwed on shipping dates, and nothing we do or say/not say until we actually get production up and running will help.

    @Azteca I passed your list on to Larry directly. If I get anything back regarding it, I'll let you know.

    @Azteca To respond to your point over business trips/suppliers: Larry is going back to Asia at the end of March and will be working on getting those components finalized. I have no guarantee of the outcome at this point. He is trying to get a specific battery that the manufacturer seems to be very hesitant to work with us on for pricing/volume, due to the size/budget of LH. As soon as I hear anything back regarding this, I'll try to let you know.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  6. marflao

    marflao Acquaintance

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    Brilliant idea.. then Larry would see himself what a shit load is dumped on Jarek thanks to his own (not) provided information.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  7. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    Accept that not everyone is going to love the company you work for, and just do your social marketing job without kicking off a giant angst-thread every time your work isn't met with universal adulation.
     
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  8. marflao

    marflao Acquaintance

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    Just curious, Jarek, how do you came up with this finding?
    Just by the fact how many times the url of that update was clicked on?
    Can't be based on the amount of positive responses... at least i haven't seen much.... 5 on IGG... 3 on HF..
    Not huge numbers justifying to speak of "well received" unless the earlier updates had even lower numbers, or?

    Is this Larry's feeling?
     
  9. mscott58

    mscott58 Friend

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    Oy. Guys, can we just chill until the next update? While it might feel good to spew, it's not going to change anything - Larry's going to work at the speed Larry works at, and we're not going to help that go any faster.
     
  10. LHCommSquad

    LHCommSquad MOT - LH Labs

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    On Freshdesk, we have "thumbs up" or "thumbs down". The circled ones in the pictures are the highest "thumbs up" to "thumbs down" ratio we have. Obviously, it's very un-scientific but it's the best one we have.

    We do have very good, positive updates with good progress, and people will downvote anyway, just to spite us. So it's just kind of a guessing game.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  11. muse

    muse Almost "Made"

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    As I've mentioned, as just a mouthpiece of Larry, I place no blame or fault on you, Jarek.

    What we need here is the truth. Or at least, signs that updates aren't just smoke and mirrors.

    I will just say. Out of the many promised dates that has been thrown around by Larry and co., how many have actually been met? Let's not go into the actual delivery date. But promises of nailing down the chassis, the screen, etc.

    The Wave is not anywhere near the final phases of completion. I think you need to understand that people don't take anything LHL says seriously. The trust was given and lost. Larry has little to no credence.[/QUOTE]

    Fair point? I think that's underselling it slightly.

    I think it should be more or less clear by now that LHL is not out here to win. Anything from hereon is damage control and limitation. Working on construction projects, I don't expect the client to be appreciative after handing over the completed site 500% past the stipulated completion date as per our contact agreement, regardless of the quality of work involved.

    Complains that stream in are to be fully expected, and in most cases justified.
     
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  12. LHCommSquad

    LHCommSquad MOT - LH Labs

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    As I was speaking to Larry tonight, I asked and received an answer for a @marflao question NOT included in any official updates:

    For anyone interested in the GO 2A vs Wave models for SOUND QUALITY, here is the question and answer in an audio format:

    https://support.lhlabs.com/discussions/topics/13000019795/page/last#post_13000084945

    Also, Larry is in Asia again as of tonight, working on wrapping things up with the Wave components (battery, screen, etc.) and manufacturers. When I have more information, I’ll be sure to share it with everyone immediately, either on forums or IGG.

    Also, the Wave boards are at the software team now. If I hear anything, I'll post it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
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  13. marflao

    marflao Acquaintance

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    Thanks for chasing Larry, Jarek, much appreciated.
     
  14. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    So much drama over a hobby. My word.
     
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  15. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    It's not over a hobby, it's about investments made a looong time ago and my only hope is that all the criticism will keep Larry honest and on his toes. Let's not underestimate the situation.
     
  16. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    Crowd funding is not an investment, it's a gamble. Crowd funding someone like LH labs is a long shot. If you're thinking of it as an investment, ur doin it rong, sadly.
     
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  17. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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  18. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    The thing is during the campaign everything was present as almost done and ready to go with hard deadlines. The only way I would have known it's a gamble is if I had the good sense to mentally rise above the hype...but hype is one hell of a drug that clouds my judgement and exactly what Gavin pursued. Plus for most it was the first and for me last crowdfunding campaign as it used my nativity against me.
     
  19. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    The point is that when you “donate” there is zero gaurantee of you getting anything at all. You may get a “reward”, if they are successful in their goals.

    If they aren’t, then it’s tough titty.

    With that said I think there have been cases of successful legal proceedings by disgruntled backers.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  20. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE Massdrop's Golden Child (MOT)

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    I have a lot of 3.5mm TRRS balanced cables so I am down for a DAP that I can use with my HD800, PM-3, HD6X0.
    With a small adapter I have for 2.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRRS I will run IEMs...
    Oh, I have a 3.5mm TRRS balanced cable for my Engimas too.
     

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