goodsoundclub Podcast

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by k4rstar, Dec 12, 2021.

  1. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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    It was a Meridian CD player and Transport, they wanted to be audio pioneers and claim to maintain that status with now MQA
    Yes, I had to learn a new software to record with. Finding it took sometime, but It works now and I think removes alot of the stress from our previous bot that I believe does a poor job.

    Excited to hear the mini and other peoples impressions of it.

    We also decided to step back a bit from the audio babble this episode and keep it short and sweet.

    We might find other engineers and take it up again. All depends on the context of course, but maybe even some musings later on.
     
  2. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    This is kind of a slow pitch softball to @k4rstar, but would you be willing to do a deep dive on Anatoly Likhnitsky?
     
  3. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Sure, I was planning on saving stuff like this for later episodes. I would need to do a good amount of preparatory work to know where to begin. If you want to consider the kind of impact his thinking has had like one of those 'iceberg' memes, I think we would get too esoteric for most people pretty quickly. But I'll think about it :)
     
  4. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Episode 4 is live. No guest this time, just unscripted dialogue and ranting about some common pitfalls in the quest for audio nirvana.

     
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  5. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2022
  6. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    RE: Episode4

    - "Musicality" is a worse adjective than "timbre". Timbre you can at least imagine is measurable (sum of everything). Musicality on the other hand.... "Despite the flaws the musicality gets my feet tapping!"
    - Sina / k4star I think you are referring to "aperiodic" enclosures. Described in Loudspeaker Design Cookbook. Dave at planet10 appears to have some issue with the definition.
    - I still don't understand why you're settling on Grado SR60e Gazny / Tom. I still don't understand your "focus on front end". I know front end is half the equation, but SR60e?
    - "The Pitfalls of Audio". This is the juicy stuff I've been waiting for. Entertaining and informative. Warning: cuts a little close to the bone. More please!
     
  7. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Couple questions with regards to timbre (and no, I don't have convincing answers to either):
    1. Can headphones ever have good timbre, if we're calling timbre a "sum of parts" relating to an acoustic event captured through some kind of microphone? (caveat, without including specialty binaural recordings, and if we're being even snobbier, we're only talking about an un-amplified acoustic event)
    2. Is the interface/loading/coupling between speaker and room acoustics the greatest arbiter of timbre?
     
  8. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    1. Maybe, but it depends what you mean by good. In the episode I talked about how our perception of timbre lies very much in the sensual level of perception. Touchy feely, and nebulous at best.

    How Likhnitsky defines timbre:
    and


    2. It can influence it but the greatest arbiter I would say is material composition of the reproducer and its housing.
    See: http://www.mother-of-tone.com/mother.htm
    In the horn example I gave, replacing the metal Altec horn for a treated wood one will go a long way to making it sound closer to a paper diffuser, despite the source of sound still being an aluminum diaphragm.

    Of course a direct radiator is coupled to the free air directly. And in this case the material of the diffuser dominates.
     
  9. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    What if the recorded percussion instrument is a triangle. Does that mean a metal driver or enclosure or waveguide would be better for realistic sound? I find the topic interesting so want more discussion but Ive no knowledge so dumb questions. Timber! RE: Likhnitsky. Is there a book I should read thats newb friendly? Any highly recommended books for this audio hobby please.

    Should I be happy that Ive never heard vinyl? Sounds like it would shatter my reality. Like waking from the Matrix. Joke but seriously. Ignorance is bliss? Vinyl seems too expensive anyway so no choice. I can believe im still hifi, or i can live knowing the compromise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  10. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

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    You should just be happy, regardless of medium or format. If its good, its good. Vinyl is pretty collectable, I like that it is mostly an analog experience excluding browsing Discogs. Everything I believe has a compromise. you can find it in just about everything. I prefer to find the satisfaction, than dissatisfaction.



    The Grado isn't so much something I settled on, the never ending nervosa isn't timeless either. Rather the Grado is something I have for nostalgic sake, it to me is timeless. My first headphone was the Grado 80e, whos cable broke and put me on this blessed and cursed journey. It is a reminder to me of how much is good enough.

    Thank you, I hope we can deliver content that is both entertaining and educational|{
     
  11. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I'm not so sure. On paper advanced materials like beryllium and titanium will be more capable of reproducing the upper harmonic information such an instrument would produce but it's not so simple. It goes back to the idea of what kind of aesthetic you want to create. For my mono system I am utilizing a 5" paper tweeter and metal percussion sounds quite nice on it though it only plays to 12khz :) The japanese love these advanced metals in their modern compression drivers though

    Everything worth reading about Likhnitsky is written in Russian.

    Harry Olson wrote several bibles about acoustics and acoustical engineering, you can find them in a quick google search. Very difficult to absorb front to back but it is so content dense you can pick individual chapters to read.

    Gilbert Briggs of Wharfedale fame published Loudspeakers: The Why and How of Good Reproduction in 1948. I have to get a copy.

    My rudimentary understanding of horns and compression drivers comes from scanning the practical sections of this book: https://hornspeakersystems.info/

    Most people into vinyl as a high-end pursuit are fetishists and gear flexxers. Of the remaining music lovers, the modern industry is designed to rape your wallet with ridiculous accessories and mediocre pressings. I would only recommend exploring vinyl to people who have a genuine interest in historic recordings and the patience and means to obtain them.
     
  12. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Also, RCA Tube Receiving Manuals of various vintages, for the basics of amp circuit design. I think some are still available on amazon.
     
  13. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I'll add, for #2, I think there's a related qualifier, efficiency (not to be confused with sensitivity). In that if you're seeking higher efficiency loudspeakers, it almost necessitates very light paper coned woofers (and foam, or better yet cloth surrounds) and certain motor structures. Just my personal opinion, but higher efficiency speakers seem to couple to the room (when placed properly) in a different way that gets back to #1.
     
  14. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    @yotacowboy Amp circuit design? Ill read that one later… Let me start with something more general. I ordered this Harry Olson book. Looks pretty dry but Ill give it a try.

    @k4rstar My metal materials for metal sounds question was dumb I thought. Like a 40mm headphone driver cannot replicate a 9ft long grand piano. I appreciate you trying to answer me seriously. What you said makes sense. “It goes back to the idea of what kind of aesthetic you want to create.” Sounds like youre distilling “which headphone should i get?” Go on… good stuff.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2022
  15. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    That Harry Olson book so far has been pretty newb friendly and very informative. So much good stuff just in the first few chapters. I probably wont read it all since some parts may not be as pertinent. Glad I picked this up @k4rstar .

    @Gazny The Idles’ Brutalism hits the spot for me. Funky drum n bass (dont know if funky is the right word but they can play, im no expert obviously), punk surreal vocals with silly, cutting, angst lyrics.
    Second album also good but may need a little more time for me to appreciate over the simpler first album (im simpleton). Havent gone further in catalogue yet.

    I admit Ive historically erred on the side of caution when buying music and went for the most well regarded stuff from history. About 9years and 3months ago I went to music subscription services only which allowed me to sample MUUUUUUUCH more music (youtube used to be my main means before commiting to buying CD) without remorse. Anyways, I may not have bothered trying Idles pre-streaming without a strong recommendation. Now I listen to new-to-me albums daily (where before it was weekly)(average).

    tldr: im old.

    edit:
    Chapter3 talked a little about music composition but explained it was more art and beyond scope of book. Mostly concerned with intonation and reproduction. Composition more about feels than science.

    Chapter4/5 talked about types of radiators and quickly got very numbery with formulas and stuff I didnt care about. Describing behaviors of different membranes and resonators, clamped vs open ended vs tensioned, etc. Then shapes surfaces and their radiation patterns, for example circular (like a speaker driver or drum), square or rectangle, cylindrical, horn etc. I can already see how some of this would be evidence to explain how a irl piano does not sound the same on a speaker.

    P.S. Most of what I read will be forgotten. Lots will be skimmed. That is typically the case. Unless its a novel or I am trying hard but even then losses are still high just less high. I use a highlighter to increase retention.

    edit2: I think the “philosophy hole” in clubroom would be up your alley @Gazny @k4rstar
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2022
  16. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    RE: Timbre (Ch.6 intro from Olson book)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    there you go, straight from the horses' mouth :)
     
  18. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Thinking about it a bit, instrumentent seem to have a tendency where higher pitched instruments (triangle, flute) are metal while lower pitched ones are more wood or non-metal (bass, drums)

    seems to make sense for the tweeter to be metal and the rest as paper cones
     
  19. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Re: Episode 4

    I like the story about picking up the tube amp. I think a lot of us have stories of hunting for certain gear or visiting someone with something unexpected.

    Awhile ago Fostex released some special edition fe103-sol orange drivers that I was super interested in but missed the original purchase period because I didn't have a ton of fun money yet. Of note though was that they had an 8Ω and 16Ω version and I really wanted the higher impedance version as it's a better match for tube amps and I would have tried stupid shit like using it with a headphone amp rated at 16Ω.

    A bit later I was searching for the classifieds and the 16Ω driver was listed for sale from some dude in Paris for local pickup on the french equivalent of craigslist. I contacted him mentioning that I wasn't local but willing to pay for shipping where I lived. This guy was super concerned about damaging the drivers which is why he only had them for local pickup. He also said that the only reason he was selling them was because he wasn't able to make a cabinet good enough for them. This was sounding a lot like someone adopting out their kid and making sure they would end up in a good home. Which I though was amazing. Anyway, sale didn't happen for those reasons.

    Later on I end up in Paris because you are required to be at the US embassy for passport renewals. Which was a pain however since I was in Paris I decided to call the guy up again to see if he still had the drivers. They were still there! I went over to his place and he got the drivers out and included grill covers too. He had a cool two B&W two channel setup in his living room. His spouse was there too and she had a look of "it's another one of those audio weirdos"

    I still haven't built a cabinet for it yet, but I'm going to remember what I did to get those drivers.
     
  20. Philimon

    Philimon Friend

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    Craigslist encounters could be a whole episode. All my experiences have been good and has led to meeting some interesting people and hearing some sweet gear (speakers). Funny one my friend told me: there was one seller that turned out to live in the boonies and would not share his home address even though that was the place of meet. He gave my friend an approximate location, and then when near would only give driving directions via text (ie. turn here there etc). Sounded like the beginning of a horror film.

    RE: triangle
    Producing tone, dynamics, and attack/decay characteristics are within the realm of reproduction by speakers (I imagine). Radiation pattern is the most obvious difference (i imagine). Speakers in your living room does not sound like a grand piano in your living room. Ill finish book and let you know what Olson might say based on my poor reading comprehension and newbness and no education. Book hasnt even touched yet on recording and mastering.
     

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