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Group Buy Ground rules, and what should we live by.

Discussion in 'Leaderboard, Overboard, and Deals' started by Wfojas, May 2, 2016.

  1. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    I wanted to start a group buy for the Mutecs. I put up a for sale posting and pulled it down the next day, realizing that this would be hard to do without clear and hard rules. There being no precedent, and prior negative experiences (and very valid concerns) the Mods recommended that I post it here first. I will also post a group buy for the Mutecs after this is hashed out, but the initial points of discussion are.

    1. What do we buy? We can poll, we can discuss, etc.
    2. How long do we wait? Some vendors will do tranches, Mass drop does quantities. There has to be a deadline for available devices, and maybe subsequent batches.
    3. How do we pay? In my prior group buys, we paid the person ordering AFTER he received the goods and had it ready for redistributing. I think the biggest we did was for 30 Denon DL-103 from Japan, back in the Dark Ages, when they were no longer available in the USA.
    4. How are they shipped? The carts were a no brainer, cause they were shipping from Japan. For items that are bought locally, if the vendor can accomodate, I would think that they can just take payment directly with an SBAF coupon code, and that would be it.
    a. How do we know if we hit the price breaks that way?
    b. Vendors want an easy big sale, buyers want an inexpensive easy sale. The gap is in shipping. Easy for customer is not easy for vendor and vice versa.
    5. Who gets in? Friends, Rando (probably cause you want to make sure to hit the numbers, but those should probably prepay)
    6. What about returns? This is the second challenge. Vendors have different return fees and policies. I was actually mistaken about one vendor having a 25% restock. They actually have no restock (though you pay for shipping) when returning within 5 days of receipt. However, a grouped shipment would push them outside the window.
    7. Reputation. These things do get messed up, and has consequences. There are thieves, ass holes, cry babies on all sides of the equation. Is it worth it? It was when I participated, and this is a pretty legit crowd. Know though that all points that cause contact is a potential for friction.
    8. Transparency - Multiple people have to be a party to the actual buy, to preclude all sorts of bad things. Pricing is touchy, though, as leaking prices mess up peoples business model. Old Friends notwithstanding, SBAF should come first, as we do with the For Sale section.

    Sorry for the long post, your thoughts much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
    Wfojas, May 2, 2016
    #1
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Generally, I am leery about group buys based on a prior group buy on Changstar. There was an individual on CS who started a group buy and for whatever myriad of reasons or excuses, one person did not receive the goods until a year later and another person (who was to receive money instead of the goods, since the project was aborted) received a piece of used gear in lieu of money - about a year and a half later! I don't want to see something like this happening again. The premise of this group buy was based on trust and reputation, including my own. The result was certain people being afraid to approach me personally because of the fear of ruffling certain relationships; and me being severely pissed off at the entire thing at the end. That being said, I don't feel that a knee-jerk reaction against all group buys is appropriate.

    Some thoughts:
    1. I do not want SBAF or myself to have any liability: reputational, monetary, or otherwise. Whoever is starting a group buy should put a disclaimer stating such and assume full responsibility.
    2. I'd like to see full transparency, perhaps a statement including receipts, service charges, multi-unit discounts, etc.
    3. I do not want SBAF being arbiters for people who back out, receive defective merchandise, suddenly can't pay, the organizer having to make ethical cost benefit analysis and keeping the money for over a year only to offer someone a used piece of gear in lieu of money, etc.
    Otherwise go ahead AFTER some guidelines are developed. No need to make them super complex to account for every imaginable situation. I'm thinking more of a policy document and a standard disclaimer rather than detailed procedures document.

    Public discussion should commence.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
    purr1n, May 2, 2016
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  3. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    I also think that, if its not too unwieldy, someone collects the order, puts in the buy, but someone else collects the money before hand. The division of labor should help transparency, and put in a sense of timeliness to fullfilment. If it doesn't fly, the money and fullfilment are separate work streams. A Comprador holds the money, in the Mutec case, once the numbers are tallied, I can put in the order, the Comprador transfers the money to the vendor, the vendor fulfills. So no unit is shipped until money is at hand, and at that point nothing unpaid gets bought.

    Distribution for a single shipment will get messy, and since its higher value and the return window is small, will opt for paying extra for direct shipment for higher value items. Tracking will be visible to all, so receipt dates should be verifiable.

    Return money might get touchy, but that gets routed to the Comprador. Returns that affect quantity breaks will be a problem.

    In all cases a group buy will have stated verbiage stating that SBAF is not responsible for the execution and fulifilment, nor does it endorse the buy. Its the sole responsibility of a) the person(s) conducting the group buy, and b) SBAF does not receive any monetary renumeration from the transaction.

    Comments please?
     
    Wfojas, May 3, 2016
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  4. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    The other way to go have a group buy is to have a code that is used to order, and people that use it get group buy pricing for a limited period. The prices are a little higher, but all liability is out of the end users domain, and SBAF is merely a SlickDeals like conduit. Implementing Massdrop's tiered pricing could be done manually, as well, depending on the tiers.
     
    Wfojas, May 3, 2016
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  5. velvetx

    velvetx Gear Master West/Vendor Spotlight Moderator

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    @shipsupt will be the group buy overlord. This basically means before any group buys are posted they go through him. In these private messages to him all details below should be outlined. This information is just to get the drop approved.
    • Company Name
    • Company Contact (e-mail and phone number)
    • Product
    • Price (MSRP and Discounted Price or Discount %)
    • Extra Fees (shipping, paypal, tax, etc)
    • Minimum Quantity of Drop
    • Price Breaks (if there are price breaks at 5 units, 10 units, etc)
    • Payment Information (pay the person advertising the drop or pay the company directly)
    • Length of Drop (includes time drop will be active and then how long will it take for people to get their stuff)
    • Return Policy
    • Shipping (US only or International as well)
    Rules of the drop can be very specific but ultimately the person running the drop is in charge of making the drop happen. The job of the person running the drop is to be the liaison between the company and members of the drop as SBAF or their admins are not directly involved with any group buys (unless they are the ones offering the group buy).
    1. If you want to be on the drop you pay immediately to whomever is collecting money
    2. Drop is first come first serve basis and can include anyone who signs up
    3. Minimum quantity must be reached in order to have the buy go through
    4. If the buy doesn't go through money will be refunded
    5. Make sure when sending the money you put in the comments what you are buying
    6. All communication is done through the starter of the group buy and the individual members who sign up.
    DISCLAIMER: SBAF is not involved or responsible for lost goods or money as a result of these group buys. The only people who are held responsible for such a result is the company you are doing the drop with as well as the member who offered the drop. This doesn't mean we won't be willing to help but we will not be held responsible if resolution is not reached.

    Thank you.

    Nicholas
     
    velvetx, May 3, 2016
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  6. shipsupt

    shipsupt Admin

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    I've been a little slow to respond because I'm trying to be thoughtful about this topic.

    I'm more or less cool with what you guys are laying down here. I am concerned that if we're "vetting" the group buys that SBAF will take some responsibility for how they turn out. I'm definitely with Marv here in saying we need to stay full Switzerland on these deals. If we vet the deal early, how long will it be before someone comes to us to arbitrate a dispute?

    Unfortunately, I've seen these things go bad even when organized by guys who had reliably pulled off dozens of previous group buys. There is always a risk to the buyers and it's typically significantly magnified when it's a group buy because more money is involved when it goes wrong. Some guys who have done great good in the community have ended up screwing big groups, and we never really hear why the go rogue.

    I've got some more floating around in my head, but I've got to run and take care of some stuff around the house. I'll be back in a while...
     
    shipsupt, May 3, 2016
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  7. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    All rules can possibly be broken, so maybe we should put caution before courage. Not like we need to do this, and the downside far outweighs the upside.
     
    Wfojas, May 3, 2016
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  8. velvetx

    velvetx Gear Master West/Vendor Spotlight Moderator

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    I dont see there being a problem it's not like this is going to happen all the time. A lot of work for you though.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
    velvetx, May 3, 2016
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  9. Wfojas

    Wfojas Friend

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    Nah, its not a thang.
     
    Wfojas, May 12, 2016
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