iFi Pro iDSD Reviews

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by ufospls2, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    @ufospls2 looking forward to the full review, but just curious about... some things. If these are already points you plan to address then feel free to ignore, and sorry for the wall of text below, haha.

    I'm not a potential buyer (yet) because finances but this is on the radar for consideration in later years: asking as a headphone soundstage (censored) how's it fare both as an AIO and compared to other DACs (as a DAC unit, of course) here? Mature sounding Micro iDSD is very much awesome to hear because I might actually prefer the bass on it to the Bifrost MB (maybe less textured, definitely more controlled), but I don't think the baby version is very much good at portraying depth or layers— good width really, but not much else. I'm not offended by the timbre either, though I've not heard enough DACs to really be confident qualifying this.

    Don't much care about DSD at all but curious whether it does Redbook justice and whether the returns going to high res stuff is worth the trouble— not much improvement to warrant *needing* 192kHz or even 96kHz on the Micro in my experience, but I could just be deaf I guess.

    Also, I've gotten a small amount of time with the iCAN Pro— are the tube and tube + modes here any sort of comparable to the implementation there or nah? What standalone amps would you say the built-in one here trades blows with? I'm thinking lower priced ones considering your comments, but would be great to hear which ones specifically.

    Lastly (sorry for the barrage of questions), does this do well with low-impedance biodynas e.g. the HP-3 or does it not push out enough current to warrant the use case/have way too much gain to stick to safe listening levels? :p
     
  2. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    First of all, much appreciated for your feedback! Enjoy!

    And to address your question, Pro iDSD's line stage is powerful enough to drive headphones nicely and that's why headphone out is there. There's no internal headphone amp in the Pro. The shortest and simplest answer why we added this functionality is because we could do it in rather elegant and minimalist way. The result you already know :cool:
     
  3. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

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    I think it fares really well as an all in one to be honest in comparison to the other options on the market. I mean the Hugo TT2 is like..double (?) the price? I think if you wait for an Adorama (or similar) type deal on the Pro iDSD, it makes an argument for being one of the best for the price on the market. It does most stuff, really well!

    I don't care about DSD at all, but from what I'm hearing the DSD upsampling feature...smoothes things out a little bit?

    I think the tube and tube + modes are similar.

    I'm finding it difficult to say it trades blows with "X" amp but I'd say its maybe 85% as competent as the Pro iCAN. I think that it isn't as competent as some of the standalone amps I have used, but it does more than enough for its purpose, making the iDSD a competent AIO.


    Good to know, thanks for chiming in and being active on the forums iFi! I do have another question. Do the tube and tube+ modes effect the DAC Line out or only the headphone output? So if I am using the Pro iDSD as a DAC alone with another headphone amplifier, can I still use tube and tube + mode?
     
  4. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    The output mode (SS, tube, tube+) are part of the line-out circuit and thus will be active regardless of using the headphone-out or one of the line-outs on the back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  5. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

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    Nice. Thanks for the reply :)
     
  6. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Since line out and headphone out in Pro iDSD are the same thing, as such they are as equally subject to Tube/Tube+.

    Edit:

    Ah, just saw your post now! Yup, you nailed it.
     
  7. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    Are there any noteworthy differences between the 2.5 mm and 4.4 mm versions in the DAC-only use case?
     
  8. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Other than slight power output increase, there are none.
     
  9. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    Hello,

    I has been a very long time. I told iFi audio that I had a comparison of the iDSD and the YGA2 in the works and I dropped the ball. I might as well just call it quits at this rate all together. From going to Ghana on a missions trip, to being super busy with many other things, I have lost the time for this. I still very much enjoy music but am in a very different place than when I was obsessed with gear.

    I had a full comparison but lost a lot (not all) of my notes, the Yggdrasil is gone, lost the pictures I took of them together somehow and do not have enough memory to do the comparison justice. I will post my summary here of what I thought between the two when I had both of them on deck.

    Rusty, add some salt to this post.
    BASS

    YGGDRASIL: Has more weight to it. Sounds more heavy handed and a little more saturated. The dynamics comparable but the songs feel a bit more grounded. Hits harder for kick drums with better slam and pervasive rumble. On the first few listens it just feels better. Analyzation makes me question it but the Yggdrasil, while not any more tight or controlled fees a bit more realistic and just a little harder. Bass heads will reach for the Yggdrasil first over the iFi. You can switch to the bit perfect modes to close the gap at the expense of some separation and details. Most of this comparison was done in gibbs transient mode. Other tweeks will give different results
    IFI PRO iDSD: Sounds slightly less hard and less deep but just as controlled. The decay is not as wet as my previous review would have it. It sounds a little less organic in the bass but has a very potent attack. Bit Perfect + mode makes it sound a bit more grounded, giving it more weight like the Yggdrasil without loss of control, just still not there for slam in comparison. Then turn it to Bit Perfect and it sounds almost on par in terms of weight. Not shy by any means though. The iFi actually sounds a bit tighter in the bass kicks by a hair if that is possible, at least that is the impression but I should have listened more for a final determination. I still like the bass a lot on the iDSD

    MIDS
    YGGDRASIL: Pianos have more weight and it sounds just a little more bold and full.
    IFI PRO iDSD: Voices have more breathe in them on the iFi with a little bit more artificial sheen yet more ebb and flow. The iDSD sounds more open with wind instruments etc. Singers sometimes sounded better to me on the iFi.


    TREBLE
    YGGDRASIL: Sometimes it actually felt darker depending on the setting and other times it was neck and neck. I prefer the treble textures and delivery of the Yggdrasil but the air and extension of the iDSD.
    IFI PRO iDSD: Treble sounds a bit artificially hyped on the iFi in comparison without the tubes engaged. Very slightly splashy and needing some bite. It has good pop and dynamics but the textures seem a bit messy at times even though it is very detailed and resolving. Just not as cohesive as the Yggdrasil and less pleasant to listen to but again, switching the settings will give different results.


    SOUNDSTAGE ETC:

    YGGDRASIL: more intimate and upfront than the iFi for sure. The separation is very close to each other in performance but the instruments seem closer to each other on the Yggdrasil.
    IFI PRO iDSD: Overall bigger than the Yggdrasil, especially in width. The instruments sound more 'floaty' and suspended compared to the Yggdrasil. Bit perfect mode closes it in kinda sounding more like the yggdrasil. If you are coming out of the headphone jack you will find a small soundstage but as a stand alone DAC it is the much larger sounding of the two with a tube amplifier.

    DYNAMICS:

    YGGDRASIL: Similar micro dynamics to each other and while I would say the Schiit DAC hits harder, that does not necessarily mean it is more dynamic on the macros. I would say that is more due to the solidity in the timbre compared to the iDSD. It felt a little more compressed or less free and nimble to me than the iDSD.
    IFI PRO iDSD: Seems to have better dynamic range. Sounds a little more free flowing and slightly less compressed. Micros would probably be a toss up here but the iFi PRO had very good micro dynamics. This section made me wonder if I still knew how to listen to the gear right because prior to the iDSD the Yggdrasil did micros better than any DAC I had heard.

    TIMBRE:

    YGGDRASIL: Has a heavier hand and weightier notes. It can sometimes sound more full because of this. I prefer the timbre of the Yggdrasil to the iDSD for sure.
    IFI PRO iDSD: More airy and light in delivery. This inhibits its ability to sound as cohesive in busy passages. The Yggdrasil stays more grounded and full bodied. Now you can turn it to Bit Perfect mode to get that weight back and make it less splashy but then it loses some of its separation and depth.

    OVERALL

    I actually thing that the first impressions would have me picking undecided. The iFi does way more things for the same cost, is smaller, just as detailed and resolving, and you can get a sound similar to the Yggdrasil with some tweaks. However on some songs the Yggdrasil just sounded right and I have a bend towards good timbre and solid dense tones, which is why l loved the Pavane so much. I think the iFi gives you more bang for your buck though overall. It is a very good product in my opinion and the price considering all it does is very sensible. Were I to have both of them for a long time and just needed a DAC I would probably go for the Yggdrasil with a spacious tube amp as a settlement but wouldn't be mad if I just had the iDSD either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  10. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Additional impressions appreciated, @gbeast! I'd say you've enough experience in the hobby to forgive a bit of rustiness, but at the same time the write-up might have benefited from less time between your last hearing both in a proper comparison and posting, since time goes a long way towards adding a rosy tint to these sorta things.

    I'm of the "DACs are fine-tuning" camp, at least relative to amps and transducers (and cables! /s), but will concede surprise that these two are as close in performance as you make them out to be. I've gotten ears on an iDSD in meet conditions, but this makes me wish I had it in home setting to confirm.

    I disagree emphatically on one point, however: at least in my experience it's no surprise anything iFi does bass well :p

    Probably futile to ask given conditions, but I'm curious whether the relatively greater dynamic range on the iFi is a function of the lightness of the notes (I think I get what you mean by that), in which case I'm wondering how that might make busy passages sound less cohesive. Is it a matter of trying too hard to not sound congested?
     
  11. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    For the record, those are from notes but I had more notes elsewhere that are lost, or atleast I thought I did.

    As for the bass, I didn’t say the iDSD had bad bass. Yggdrasil is just exceptional in regards to giving that slam. The iDSD was not far behind.

    Also I asked you to add salt.

    ***dissappears***
     
  12. Jinxy245

    Jinxy245 Vegan Puss

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    It's good to 'see' you again anyway, especially given how busy you are.

    I mean shit, Ghana? Really?

    Thanks for the impressions, much appreciated.
     
  13. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Don't worry, what you proived many of people here will find VERY useful. Great work and thank you! All the best, wherewer you aree ATM and whatever you do!
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I have this right now and my initial impressions align with @gbeast's. This is a good DAC, but a different presentation than others. The iFi Pro iDSD reminds me of the well-received Grace m901 DAC (not the Sabre version) from 10 years ago, except much better. A souped-up version of it.

    I like Tube+ and Bit Perfect + (which I believe is like an EQ'd NOS mode). The modes can result in a different sound with some things better than others, but I settled on the above. I left the DAC on for three days before listening. More later.
     
  15. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Enjoy!
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    OK. First off, the UI and iconography are excellent!. This has got to be the easiest DAC with the most tweakable functions I've ever had the pleasure of using. In hindsight, the X-Sabre UI, which also had quite a lot of sound settings, would make me want to commit suicide - it shouldn't be that hard for users to change the sound settings.

    The knob on left changes the input, knob in the middle changes filters (push in for DSD resampling options), the knob on right changes volume. A three position slider below the middle knob changes the output stage from JFET, Tube, and Tube+ (minimal feedback). I figured all this out in less than 20 seconds. The lettering on the faceplate is legible for someone like me with failing eyesight. The iconography makes sense. As an aside, Schiit's iconography is too small and obtuse where only my son with his young Wolverine restorative eyesight powers and fresh creative brain can comprehend. Also, the one button cycle-through on the Schiit gear drives me nuts. I love the knobs approach on the iFi Pro iDSD. Twist forward and twist back to get to where we want. And an LCD panel that tells us where we are at. Like a steering wheel and dashboard. Fricking makes sense. BTW, the iFi even remembers the last position of the volume knob after turn on.

    There are just way too many options for me to cover each of them comprehensively. However, I plan to have this for a few more days, so feel free to ask me to try different settings out. I will say that so far, the DSD upscaling offers a different interpretation for soundstage and seems to work in conjunction with the Bit Perfect + filter. I will get back to the DSD upscaling features later as this is something that I am playing with tonight.

    As for the filters, I have a strong preference toward the Bit Perfect + as it provides a bit of grunt and richness. Bit Perfect (without the +) sounds thinner and less extended at both ends. Another filter that I like which seems more honest is the Transient Aligned. The other filters, the Apodizing and GIbbs (minimum phase) filters I did not care for, especially with headphones where I thought they sounded like ass. (Note that most of my listening was with one of my speaker rigs, the JBL). This shouldn't come as a surprise for you who know my preferences and how violently I react to filters with minimized or no pre-ringing.

    In terms of presentation, I mentioned Grace m901 a few posts before and I stand by this. Maybe some inherent warmth, the bass isn't particularly hefty (like Convert 2 or Yggdrasil A2), less cool than Gungnir A2 and X-Sabre. Maybe mid-centric? Take the Crane Song Solaris, lessen its brightness and turn down its analytical nature two notches, and voila, we get the iFi Pro DSD. The sound is more rounded, refined, beguiling, delicate rather than square like the Convert-2 or X-Sabre. Again reminds me of the Grace m901, but significantly more resolving of plankton with a touch of vintage sound using the Tube+ and BP+ filters. However, make no mistake, this is still very much a modern sounding DAC, albeit a very listenable one! Those who wish discrete R2R ladders or true vintage R2R should consider DACs from EC Designs, Soekis, or 20-year-old Sonic Frontiers DACs.

    While not the final word in plankton (Yggdrasil notches above it, Convert-2 notches below, X-Sabre from memory seems on par), the one notable strength of the ifi Pro iDSD seem to lie in its ability to avoid sounding congested or muddy while retaining a more rounded presentation. The Yggdrasil at times can edge on the border of too syrupy (call it PCM63 bass, not anywhere as bad as PCM1704 bass though). I do wish the iFi Pro iDSD had more heft to its bass; however, using the Nexus 4X setting on the Freya S does help. I actually prefer the rounded "cinema-mode contrast" presentation compared to the vivid square presentation. Part of this is because of the high-efficiency speakers that run, which tend to already sound more vivid and lively, and also because I crank up the volume like mad. (Secret: rounded DACs sound better, they have finer volume gradations, just crank up the volume). It's near midnight during the summer, and I'm probably listening at 85db with 90db peaks. My kids are cool with this. They are night owls anyway - probably binge watching Stranger Things on Netflix right now in the other room.

    Anyway, I'll get back on the soundstage. I seem to be really liking the DSD upsampling. Combined with the Tube+ mode, I'm hearing a very expansive deep open sound. Before I forget, the differences between the JFET, Tube, and Tube+ output stages are not huge. They are subtlely done.

    To be continued...
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  17. Bloom

    Bloom MOT: Bloom Audio

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  18. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I’m curious as well how well the preamp performs with this unit. Could it be an alternative for Gungnir Multibit/Yggdrasil + Freya (probably the “S” more than the “+”)?

    Also wonder if it’s outputting a differential signal from the balanced outs, so that it can run 2 Aegirs/Vidars in monoblock mode directly? Between the website and the manual I see mention of “fully balanced” and “true balanced”, so I assume it’s a differential output, but wanted to check on that.
     
  19. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Thanks purr1n! We look forward to the next chapter!
     
  20. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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    will there be a next chapter?
     

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