iFi Zen DAC V2 Review (including impressions on Signature version)

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Oct 27, 2022.

  1. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Has anyone had the chance to compare the Zen DAC Sig V2 to MMB2 and/or BF2, OG or 2/64?
     
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  2. EagleWings

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    I owned a Zen DAC Sig and a BF2 at the same time. You could tell they shared a lot of similarities. Punchy bass, warm mids and similar-ish presentation. However, the ZDS had a more upfront and a closed-in type of presentation relative to the Bf2. Bf2 was a bit strident in the lower treble and inoffensive in the upper treble. Whereas, the ZDS was inoffensive in the lower treble but after a few weeks it started to bother me in the upper treble. While the ZDS did come off as a baby Bf2, it just didn't have the realism the Bf2 had. In fact, despite the way I liked the ZDS was voiced in the mids, the overall tone just wasn't convincing. Bf2 also resolved more texture, inner details and micro details and had an upper hand in depth, layering, separation and imaging. ZDS punched a tad harder than the Bf2.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
  3. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Going balanced out from the Zen One Sig doesn't seem to have made the biggest difference that I can hear. Then again, the Freya is still converting it back to SE so maybe that's the issue. I'd say the SE outs on this don't leave much performance potential on the table.
     
  4. darmok

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    I've had my eye on the Zen One Signature for a while as an affordable do-anything DAC, and when I saw a good deal on an open box unit I snapped it up. My first impression was that it sounded like crap when compared to the MMB2 or even the built-in DAC on my amp. "Mushy" is a good word, and it was also extremely dark. This didn't change when updating the firmware on the unit either. When I connected it to my DAP over USB and played a rip of the same CD I had been playing over SPDIF, things improved somewhat, though it remains mushier (for lack of a better word) than the MMB2.

    I'm not entirely convinced that cables could be the issue either. I have an automatic SPDIF switch that performs jitter reduction and I've been feeding the output of that into the MMB2 over optical, which oddly enough sounded better to my ears than from its coaxial output into the MMB2. I've tried both outputs into the Zen, with the coaxial cable being a WBC SPDIF cable. Using coax with the WBC cable is maybe slightly better than optical, but not by a huge degree.

    I'll leave it on for a while and see how much it improves. How long did you leave yours on before the SPDIF opened up?
     
  5. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I didn’t try it for a few days, maybe even over a week. I don’t know when the sound change would have happened within that timeline.
     
  6. darmok

    darmok Acquaintance

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    It opened up within a few days. My overall impression now is "meh". It's better than other delta-sigma DACs that I've used, but to my ears it's a little drier than the MMB2, with the typical D/S highs present but toned down a little. It's pretty close, but where the difference is audible, it's not subtle. The MMB2 also has a magical synergy with the Magni Piety as preamp in my system, and the Zen doesn't work as well with the Piety. Perhaps it'd work better with a Zen Can, but I don't feel like dropping another couple of hundred bucks into this.

    I'll keep it in the system for a while to see if my impressions change. On the plus side, the Bluetooth works well, and if I ever end up with DSD or (god forbid) MQA files I now have something that'll decode them.
     
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  7. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Could also be a synergy thing. I compared mine against an Yggdrasil and a BF2 and felt any differences were minor enough in my system with my ears that I didn’t need to upgrade. I still enjoy the Zen One Sig every day and have no desire to upgrade.
     
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  8. WoodyLuvr

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    My iFi Audio ZEN DAC Signature V2 (Firmware: v7.4b) is performing quite admirably; surprisingly so.

    It has completely replaced my two older Benchmark DACs (DAC2 D and DAC3 L) that exhibited too much "digititus" (digital glare/edge/sharpness) for my liking and listening preference. They both tended to make the upper midrange and treble fatiguing to my sensitive ears. It also replaced my Schiit Audio MMB, which I also sold off along with my Benchmarks, as it just didn't pair as well with my custom tube amp.

    I have auditioned quite a number of well regarded DACs (Holy Audio Spring 2, Chord Dave, Chord Hugo 2, Denafrips Ares II, Schiit Audio Bifrost 2, etc.) all to no avail... nothing synergizes as well as the iFi Audio ZEN DAC Signature V2 has. Something about the implementation of the Burr Brown chip perhaps.

    I am still actively hunting around and demoing DACs. Currently, awaiting on a to be loaned Gustard R26 and brand new A26 to arrive in the coming weeks (fingers crossed), as well as possibly an older Rockna Wavelight and Denafrips Pontus (although the Ares II did not perform that well in my system I have been told that the Pontus is a much different performer especially with tube amps).
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I have yet to write a formal review of the iFi Zen Signature DAC (assuming I have the V2), but my experience aligns with yours. With most amps headphone combos I have in my stable, I actually prefer the much lower coat Zen DAC V2 (non-sig) reviewed in the first post here.

    The non-sig V2 is bit more dirty sounding compared to the signature version. It actually reminds me a slightly of the MMB1 with its darker tonality. The sig version is super clean, a bit zippy, and as you said: better than most other DS DACs, but still a bit dry, maybe clinical. Yes, technically better, but less compatible with my headphone and amp chains. The Sig V2 I would say is like a mini Convert-2 DAC but less refined and much less explosive.

    At the $300 price, I would have liked the iFi Zen Signature DAC (V2) to have an SPDIF input and iFI's trademark filter options such as the BitPerfect. iFi can of course lose the the "GTFO" filter since MQA is kaput. LOL, this is the first time in a while that I've had a "meh" or more "it's not bad, but not for me" experience with iFi stuff.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2023
  10. darmok

    darmok Acquaintance

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    I do see an open box Zen DAC V2 for $100, but I swore to myself that the next time I'm thinking about getting another component I don't really need just because it's cheap I'd put some of that money into the audiophile swear jar and save up for something really nice. Guess I have my first contribution to that fund...

    I should have written the latter instead of "meh". It's not an objectively bad component, but it's not inspiring me to go out of my way to listen to it. Again, personal and subjective evaluation, your ears and system synergy may vary.

    The One Signature doesn't have any filter options either, unfortunately. The only way I see to get those and SPDIF is the significantly more expensive Neo IDSD.
     
  11. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Pic or it didn't happen, and really, all I can say is that @purr1n is debilitatingly generous.

    [​IMG]

    The Schiit Modi 3+ which uses an AKM4490 has been my main DAC since mid-late 2021 following a massive downsizing/giveaway so these impressions will be solely concerned with contextualising how I feel about the Zen DAC V2 after having used the Modi 3+ exclusively on my desktop rig for around two and a half years. I haven't heard any of the Schiit ESS DACs yet.

    I should point out that the wall warts that I got with the Magni Unity and the Modi MB2 were both 120V so were not usable to me-- I don't (yet) have a step down transformer. Doesn't mean I didn't inadvertently try, though, much to that wallwart's chagrin. I have a spare wallwart that I was using with the Magni 3+ but my nerves are slightly tetchy from having inhaled some magic smoke so while I'll get around to using the Magni Unity and MMB2 eventually, they're just resting on my desk for now, unplugged.

    Please note that I don't actually keep them stacked that way, that was just for a photo. I have too many cats and know better.

    NOTE:
    I did fire up the MCTH (currently using an Amperex Bugle Boy 6922) for a bit, but I mainly used the Piety on account of how well it matched with the Zen DAC V2 (not to mention I want to avoid wearing tubes out as much as possible). The only functional headphones I've got on hand are the HD600s with approx 7 year old pads-- friend gave back my old DT880 250R which I plan to refurbish and pass on to another friend, but the one channel's still dead and all the squishy bits are basically disintegrated.


    *******************
    On the whole the very first thing that stood out to me about the iFi Zen DAC V2 is how much more open it sounded despite the hazier background. The Modi 3+ throws out a wider headstage and it seems to stretch further in all directions, but while sonic elements weren't flat on the headstage there was just more a diffuse sense to things. I know for a fact that that's a very popular sound among many folk, and it was one that I was partial to myself a few years ago, but whether this is just a matter of my taking joy in experiencing some sonic novelty or just the newer presentation leaning more into the HD600's inherent strengths, this is one area that I feel I can call a proper "improvement" over the Modi 3+, at least per my preferences.

    It's hard to explain, but yeah there's just a greater sense of openness and freedom to individual sonic images on the Zen DAC in spite of both it having relatively less clarity and a more intimate stage overall. Go figure.

    The tonality of the Zen DAC V2 comes off as a bit hollower-sounding to me, a slight lack of body with accentuation to overtones and harmonics, though that was mainly how I heard it right after I received the unit a few days ago. Part of me feels that's more a matter of having grown accustomed to the relatively lusher-sounding Modi 3+. On the plus side things just sound a lot drier texturally; it was much easier to catch nuances in vocals such as breathiness, sense of drive, and even mouth clicking.

    Overall resolution is comparable between the two with the edge going MAYBE to the Schiit Modi 3+; I agree with others that the Zen DAC V2 does that saturation effect really well with distortion levels rising tastefully as signal approaches 0dBu-- it makes for a really nice aggressive wall of sound effect with more heavily compressed music. In immediate hindsight this could be contributing to that greyer background. Either way, the Zen DAC V2 has more texture by virtue of it just having a notably drier overall presentation, but actually loses out on some macro(?) detail because of that saturation effect. Pick your poison.

    One thing I will note is that while I have no real context to confirm or deny that Schiit allegedly did a great job of de-Velvet Sound-ing the Modi 3+, I think that people have just been underselling how elevated the upper octaves on this DAC are. It's more tempting to crank the volume with the Zen DAC V2 than the Modi 3+, but the iFi does fill in that (slightly?) recessed midrange on the Modi 3+, so it ends up making for a different kind of listening fatigue. I initially thought that the Zen DAC had smoother treble, but it's actually a bit on the grainier side relative to the Modi 3+; just lower overall levels which does kinda work for me.

    Transients hit a lot harder on the Zen DAC, there's just more snap to things like percussion and vocal plosives and fricatives and the sound of hands clapping. While the low end of the iFi still definitely skews warm, I wouldn't really call it warmer than the Modi 3+-- I guess a better word for it is that it's slightly darker; it's very much got more noticeable rumble when music or games call for it, and that's more my speed. You still get a sense of low end washing over you similar to the Modi, but it's just more textured on the iFi, not a cosy richness like the Modi 3+ had. Really busy music like Amon Amarth at peak melodic metal breakdown sounds so much more cleanly delineated on the iFi relative to the Schiit.

    I had an original silver micro iDSD going back several years now (gave it to an ex though), and while I can draw some parallels between the sonic presentation of it and the Zen DAC V2, the Zen is just a much more in-your-face sound with perhaps less smooth treble from memory. Can't say for sure without refreshing my memory since I have literally never heard my HD600s out of it, but I do feel it's fair to say that the older iFi brick erred on the side of being more diffuse and pleasant to listen to whereas this new... curvy, not-brick-shaped thing, rolls up its sleeves and knocks your pint out of your hand before rattling your skull. The low end on the Zen DAC V2 comes off a bit bouncier compared to how the micro iDSD had things, but yeah pending a direct comparison I could be well wrong. Definitely a bouncier low end presentation than the Modi 3+ though, albeit with good impact.

    I can easily make a case for either DAC as both are good in different ways-- I can see why people might not be the biggest fan of by how the iFi has a more assertive character, but I do think it's a generally more accessible, fun sound that nicely contrasts how elegant and cosy the Schiit is (though occasionally strident, esp with something like the Magni Piety on high gain). I'm still sort of in the honeymoon period with this one but damn if I'm not just having a lot of fun listening to stuff again.


    NOTE: I did try the headamp out. It was actually pretty solid. Lack of delineation to the stage and kinda just lacking in texture overall, but I'd not be despondent if I just ran my HD600s out of it. I much prefer the Piety, though I do wish it had more sedate treble.



    P.S.

    I posted a shootout between two different mics a few days ago and amusingly enough it was much easier to tell the differences between the mics on the Modi 3+ than on the Zen DAC V2 with literally everything else in my chain staying stagnant. The only thing I can theorise is that the character of the iFi happens to fall in line with my impressions of the one mic, so listening through it made it so the other, more "sterile" sounding mic, less so. Rather than sterile vs natural, it became a matter of analogue vs more analogue sounding, hah.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2024
  12. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I hate consecutive bumps, but this may be of interest to others:

    Shortly after posting the above I flashed the 7.4B (non-MQA, non-GTO filter) firmware for the Zen DAC V2 on account of how I was annoyed with the clicky pops I sometimes got when resuming playback or changing tracks. What I didn't realise would be a problem with 7.4B would be that I'd be getting clicks and pops during playback. Things got so bad that I actually felt significant listening fatigue after about an hour or two of use, moreso than I can atttribute to the Zen DAC V2 just having more aggressive transients than the Modi 3+.

    As of writing this I'm back on 7.3B (non-MQA, non-GTO filter). I still get low-level click pops when changing tracks, even when keeping to the same sample rate (I have a few high-res tracks I bought when I thought I'd care, but nearly all of my library and streaming follows Redbook standard). This is frustrating, but less so than the alternative.

    @iFi audio Pardon the ping, I know this is an older SKU at this point but any plans to address this still with future updates or nah? I did a fresh install of the latest drivers as of writing this (5.12). Currently on Windows 11 build 22631 (I keep a bootable flash drive with Linux Mint 21.1 which I use when I just don't want to deal with Windows, but haven't used that much lately).
     
  13. Candyman

    Candyman New

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    Did anyone get to directly compare the dac in the Zen Air Dac vs the Zen Dac v2?
    There's some really cheap zen air dacs I could pick up used right now, i'd be connecting it to a Lyr 3
     

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