JAR800 and JAR800S impressions thread

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Erroneous, Jul 20, 2022.

  1. M3NTAL

    M3NTAL Friend

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    My apologies for misunderstanding - Thank you for clarifying. I'll make an edit to my previous post.
     
  2. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    JAR800 and JAR800S Impressions

    PXL_20230223_054002235.jpg

    If it isn't clear by me saying that I love my JAR600 OG, I'm a big fan of @ext1's work. We really need more people like him in the audio industry and it would be such a shame to lose him. The trend of me being a fan extends to the JAR800 and JAR800S; both these headphones turn what I consider an intolerable listening expression into something that I'd actually seriously consider buying if I didn't already own an OG Utopia.

    The mod itself is pretty ingenius; it involves retorquing screws that hold the driver down to allow for more driver excursion, and other physical mods. This is a different approach to modding the HD800 than the rug liner and SDR mods of the past; in a way, both the SDR and the rug liner mod take a bit away from the strengths of the HD800. @ext1 wanted to preserve the strengths of the HD800 while presenting a different tuning, and largely I believe the mod succeeds in doing so. In strictly an acoustic point of view, this means the mod is not transformative in the sense that it still largely sounds like a HD800, however it can be considered evolutionary in the sense that it retains all the strengths of the HD800 in the original housing without sounding like a face tweeter. In the end, it's a win.

    JAR800 Sonics

    This might be the biggest "duh" statement of the year, but the HD800 isn't exactly new and its strengths/weaknesses have been harped on for ages. So I'll briefly just list and describe what the JAR800 preserves from the HD800:
    • Stage: stage is large and very wide. A touch nebulous and indistinct as far as images go.
    • Resolve: Very very resolving, especially in the treble region. Might be close to or as good as the Utopia in the treble and a definitely step behind it in the midrange and bass, but very good. In the same ballpark as OG Auteur and Auteur Classic, both which I consider excel here as well. HD800/JAR800 weirdly is both macrodetailed and resolving.
    • Transients: The OG HD800 actually was fairly snappy in transients if you could get past the awful FR. JAR800 is similarly lively; there might be the slightest touch of overshoot on the treble side of things, but to be honest I have no idea if the HD800 just exhibits this behavior as well since I could never tolerate that headphone long enough to care to listen for those things.
    Where the JAR800 really shines is minimizing many of the horrendous negatives of the HD800. Gone is the massive treble peak at 5.5-6k. Gone is the accusation of "bass-lite." Largely, those things are mostly fixed with a few caveats.

    The treble peak is indeed fixed, but what I don't think is quite possible to fix is the bit of resonance the HD800 cups have in that region. There's a bit of a ring in the treble which didn't bother me, but is definitely present (if I listen for it I can hear it). Thus, the treble isn't quite as refined as something like the Utopia.

    Bass levels and extension have also been brought up here, but while I'd have to see measurements, I think distortion has also correspondingly been increased in levels relative to the new FR. Basically, just think that the JAR mod turns the volume knob up on the bass; means you get more bass but also more distortion. THAT being said, the bass performance is quite good; in terms of qualities that make good bass (pitch differentiation, textures, etc), I would say that the JAR800 is roughly within the same ballpark something like the Aeolus, although the manner of presentation is different between the two headphones.

    If none of the above made sense, basically @ext1 took the HD800 and slapped on a FR that's actually not far off from the OG Utopia, maybe a touch warmer but with a bit of treble ring, and kept the strengths of the HD800. Very good headphone and I have to give him a lot of credit; if I didn't already own an OG Utopia the JAR800 would be something I would buy immediately.

    JAR800S Sonics

    So I'm going to be honest here and say that I've actually NEVER HEARD the HD800S simply because I just didn't care to even try it. So I'm going to compare it directly to its JAR sibling instead.

    Those who think the stock, OG Utopia was too bright for them should try the JAR800S. It's tuned to be more downsloping and warm. From my understand though, the HD800S drivers are fundamentally a bit different and the sound has a few things that the JAR800 did not have:
    1. Ther's a bit of congestion in the mids. Only really noticeable in direct comparison, but noteworthy.
    2. The bass, while there's more of it, sounds like there's more 2nd order distortion. I'm betting this is the driver; I know Sennheiser made a change with the 800S to put H2 harmonics in the bass in order to "warm up the sound a little" and to be frank this is a step back.
    It is worth noting that the other strengths the JAR800 has, the JAR800S also has.

    I think that the JAR800S overall will be more pleasing to more ears on SBAF because it is a bit warmer than the JAR800. For me though, I definitely preferred the JAR800 over the JAR800S.

    Conclusion

    @ext1 hit 2 home runs consecutively and there's no denying that. These are absolutely worth a listen; if you've heard a bunch of the "latest and greatest" TOTL stuff and haven't been impressed, give the old HD800/800S with the JAR treatment a try.

    Edit for P.S.: I very rarely am impressed enough nowadays with gear to forget I should be critically listening. The JAR800 accomplished that for me.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2023
  3. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    Thanks for the reading @ChaChaRealSmooth. I dont know about his mod but in my efforts to mod the hd800 i also got a bit of ringing but only in some mods. What helped me in some situation was to have a few stripes of a mesh material that @Tomislav_L provided me with his V3, in a part of the cups. Since they were just a few stripes and its porous it ended up not changing the signature and taming that ressonance.

    Maybe someone, more knowledgeable, can find a better solution.

    If @ext1 ever send one these ways i will try a similar solution and see how it goes.

    Appreciate your time.
     
  4. foo_me

    foo_me Friend

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    Just to want to add some listening impressions from the loaner and what stood out to me.
    First of all, very thankful for SBAF and @ext1 for this opportunity to hear these. I've been a longtime fan of the HD800 and having tried the other flavors (HD800, HD8XX, HD800S), this was the first time I significantly liked a version better than the hd800SDR.

    Regarding the HD800SDR, I've always loved the headspace it creates. I like being in the middle of a theater, not too close and not too far. Resolution, imaging and details are great - I can hear instruments and vocals distinctly without feeling too close or too distant to it..and it's why I've always keep coming back to it.

    When I hear the JAR800, you immediately notice that they're close but distinctly different as well. HD800SDR was I would best describe as slightly smeared. Instruments and vocals are just more clear and sharper on the JAR800. The boundaries between notes are clear but still harmonious when you listen to them. Again, this is something you notice only when listening side by side but once you hear it, you remember it. One song I like to listen to, 500 Hundred Miles from Inside LLewyn Davis soundtrack, has 3 singers and it's sometimes very hard to hear the voices distinctly, especially with the 2 male vocals. It sometimes sounds like 1 voice. With the JAR800, it's nice to hear them clearly different and each voice when they sing together and when it's only one. It's really very nice to hear.

    The JAR also seems to be more balanced than the other variations. For the HD8xx and HD800S, as you increase volume, music felt odd, but when you increase the JAR800, the balance sound is maintained and seems to scale very well. You can listen to music louder and louder and it's still the same sound and is balanced very well which I didn't feel held up with the others.

    I spent most of my time on JAR800 and not JAR800s. I thought the JAR800S headspace was more closed in and not as airy but sounds were thicker and had more weight. Not necessarily what I liked so didn't spend much time with it afterwards.

    I very much enjoyed these headphone and will get one in the future.

    Setup: Gungnir Multibit A2 -> EC Studio 4x45 dev amp
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2023
  5. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    JAR800v1, v2 and JAR800S impressions

    Quick and dirty, imo and ims:

    JAR600B - 8.6 (yes, they have grown on me)
    JAR800v1 - 7.7
    JAR800S - 8.1
    JAR800v2 - 8.3

    For comparison:

    LCD-X - 7.3

    Chain: Pi2>Gungnir Multibit A1>SW51+ & Piety>JAR800v1, JAR800S, JAR800v2 (& JAR600B for comparison)

    These are all outstanding headphones. Enuff said. But let's get into the details.

    Review:

    It’s been over 7 years since I owned the 800SDR, so I am not gonna try to compare these special hp to those, just compare each against each other. However, from what I do remember, which is scanty, these sound nothing like a stock 800 or an 8000SDR…

    The treble isn’t annoying on the v1. It’s spacious, open, resolving, the bass hits harder than I remember the 800SDR ever hitting, and also closer together than I remember the SDR being (which is a good thing! the unnatural soundstage was a turn off for me).

    JAR800v1
    • timbre is better on JAR600s
    • very quick transients
    • a kind of hollowness in the midrange (as opposed to what ChaCha said, I think there’s more of a mid suckout on the v1 than the S)

    JAR800S

    *didn’t get much time with these since the headband is broken and would keep coming off while listening*
    • warmer tilt, for sure
    • denser than v1
    • thicker than v1
    • closer-in, perhaps closer-in than the 800v2
    • best JAR for pop music?
    • v out of your head, had some moments where I thought someone was at my door w these

    JAR800v2
    • row 10, if 600B is row 3
    • enveloping sound
    • transients as quick as v1
    • closer-in headspace (better than v1)
    • vocals better, more forward, a touch more forward than 600B perhaps even
    • actually slams (out of Piety)
    • more direct
    • it presents a phantom center image really well
    • timbre better than v1
    • less bright than v1
    • more cohesive than any JAR800
    • midrange gets really good with v2
    • layering is something else—separation is about as good as it gets
    • front-back layering
    • emotionally connective
    • imaging is actually really good, distinct images form out of black space
    • bass shakes hp, driver excursion is nuts on these
    • slight haze on v1 is completely gone
    • bassiest of all 3 JARs, seriously—it's ear-rattling

    listening to JAR600B out SW51+ and JAR800v2 out of Piety at the same time from the two Gungnir SE outs, and I truly can’t tell which one I like better, they trade blows on different tracks and genres…

    Conclusion:

    In the end, it’s still an 800, even the v2. If you like 800s, you will f'ing love the 800v2, it’s just that good. If you don’t like 800s at all, you might, just might like the v2s, but the v1s? Probably not, and good thing bc they’re being deprecated.

    Would I recommend any of the JAR800 family?

    Absolutely! Esp. if you have a really resolving system. They made me actually like the 800s, which is a feat in and of itself. Just like JAR somehow made me like the 660S, he did it again with the 800s, only the 800v2 is infinitely better than the JAR660S.

    Will I be on the waitlist to buy one, however? Probably not. I just love my 600B that much. In my mind, they are the perfect headphone. I will however, roll a bunch of BS600s to find a unicorn to match Erro’s pair, and send them off to Jupiter to get the perfect 600B, that’s how much I love that hp, so keep that in mind with these impressions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2023
  6. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I'll be brief, as I didn't like what I heard and don't have the enthusiasm to say much...

    Using Jot 2/BF 2

    I'm not sure how a headphone can have a large stage but somehow still sound claustrophobic.

    The headphone did not come with the dustcovers and I don't like any iteration of the 800 (of which I've owned several) without the dustcovers (which I think only exacerbated the problems), as I think the headphone was designed to work with them. I'm not sure why the loaner did not include them.

    While the images are projected outward, each note sounded like it was trapped in a cardboard box or something. I don't have any good way of elaborating on this, so I won't bother trying to Sherlock Holmes my way into understanding what the hell happened. I switched back to the HD580 pretty quickly, and it felt like a breath of fresh air, literally... there was air, space, resonance that just seemed missing on the loaner.

    Needless to say I couldn't enjoy music with them. I appreciate the loaner, but it's one of the worst, most offensive headphones I've ever heard.
     
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  7. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    Jot2 and BF2 may not be the best match for an 800 but I get it. You heard the JAR800 from my stack, right? Was it the same?
     
  8. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    I don't remember. It's not the amp or DAC though. I owned the 800 with the Jot 1 years ago and it was fine, not ideal but worlds better than whatever this is, which is just fundamentally not my thing.

    I don't really care to figure it out, I'm recovering from a stomach bug (which happened after I did all my listening btw) and don't have the mental energy or patience to unpack any of this. Loaner appreciated though.
     
  9. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    @ext1 is a genius! This is a very, very impressive headphone. It does that magical thing that causes the listener to forget about the headphone and focus entirely what’s playing. It's hard to review because it keeps pulling my attention to the music. Thank you @Inoculator for making this possible!

    Chain: Pi2AES to Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE to Woo Audio WA33 / Feliks Euforia / McIntosh MHA150

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Listening notes
    • Tubes gave far better results than solid state
    • An extremely engaging orchestral experience
    • Bass drums go so much deeper than expected
    • Natural timbre, close to HD600
    • Absolutely no sign of any treble peaks!
    • Staging has none of the overly wide / diffuse issues
    • Overall best, most satisfying treble I have ever heard
    • Makes my stock HD800S sound flat and congested
     
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  10. ThyDanMan99

    ThyDanMan99 New

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    Thank you @ext1 for making this beautiful to look at and beautiful to listen to headphone. And thank you @Inoculator for helping set this up!

    I listened to these for 4 hours straight when I first got them and looked forward to listening to them every single night while I had them. Most headphones don't do that for me anymore.

    My chain was the Schitt Eitr to Modded Modi Multibit to SW51 (with rolled tubes) / Piety.

    These headphones make me want to sell my favorite headphone the ESX900 which I've been holding onto for a very long time. They make my ESX900 sound cramped and unexciting (aside from the deep bass of the ESX900). I agree that these sound better on tubes vs. solid state. They still sounded good on the Piety, but I liked the more open sound of the SW51. Every category of these headphones was near perfect. Orchestral music was amazing. Listening to Caravan from Whiplash was an awesome experience that had me feeling like it was the first time I listened to it. The fatigue was non-existent. The staging was perfect. Not too big not too small. Everything about this headphone was just right for me. It is my favorite JAR headphone with the JAR660S being a close second. A goldilocks headphone if you will. Extremely satisfying and highly recommend to pretty much anyone and everyone.
     
  11. Inoculator

    Inoculator Friend

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    I have put off writing these impressions for far too long now, but whenever I have tried to sit down and do it, I have struggled to articulate my personal connection with these headphones/this project and not just wax poetic about Jupiter’s magnum opus. Here it goes though after parsing through over a year of loosely organized notes and messages about these truly special headphones.

    Background

    My journey with the JAR 800 project goes back to March 2022. I had recently decided to downsize/step away from the headphone side of the hobby a bit. (I have become mainly a speaker guy) I sold off my 3F+Auteur and was ready to live with the SW51+ and the HD 600. I still had this lingering desire to own a JAR mod again. I got to chatting with Jupiter, and he disclosed to me that most of his time was being spent on R&D for a JAR 800…well I couldn’t help but jump headfirst into the chance to hear that. I never really went through an HD 800 stage like lots of folks around here as I was a latecomer to the hobby, other than briefly owning an HD 800s early in climbing the headphone mountain. I sourced a 21k serial number HD 800, sent it off to Jupiter with payment, and patiently waited to see what Jupiter was cooking up. Sennheisers/JAR mods got me going on headphones again, and I have been through quite a few different headphone amps over the last year and half as I continued to explore this hobby. So much for stepping away hu?

    Revisions/Variants/Serial Numbers

    Jupiter never really intended to have different versions of this mod, but as is all too common in those post-pandemic world, supply changes necessitated a different approach. Jupiter leaned into the differences though and ultimately landed on something even more marvelous and interesting with his V2 version. Rather than V1 and V2, maybe better to think of it as a beta version and a production version as the V2 is what he plans for the foreseeable future as the only version of the mod. @Erroneous, @Ksorota , and I were the first folks in the US to receive those initial V1 versions. Those were the pairs that debuted at the Austin meet last year.

    So what is the difference? Think of the V1 version as the ultimate “fixed” HD 800. The mod for a true diehard HD 800 lover. It removes fatigue, gives a tasteful bass boost (quantity and technicality), and overall makes the 800 a more cohesive package with a more even tonality. Slightly fuller sounding, at the cost of a minor reduction in soundstage. While it may seem like minor tweaks, years of folks modding the 800 shows that achieving this is no easy task. But if you did not have a chain that was good for HD 800, or a general affinity for the 800, this version may still not be the one for you. Synergy is King, @Erroneous for example will not let you pry his V1 out of his cold dead hands because it is so great with the Stellaris+Holo May. Please note, most of the impressions from the loaner tour were with my 21k serial number JAR 800 V1, as the V2 was only swapped in late on the tour and shortly before the tour, unfortunately, had to end. While the V1 has been discontinued, you can still get closer to this version based on what serial number you are working with.

    The V2/current production JAR 800 is a whole different beast, one that is a more transformational approach to the HD 800. 800 true believers may take issue with it, but I truly believe these are the super 600/650 variant that folks have been lusting after for a long time. They sound like a less congested 6X0 series with a tonality somewhere between a 650/600 (more one way or the other depending on the underlying tonality of your particular model/serial number) with thick bass and legit slam.

    Beyond the V1/V2 though, you should be aware that there is a lot of variation in how different HD 800 models sound, and it is important that you both find an underlying set of stock cans that you generally jive with, and that you communicate with Jupiter regarding your preferences and goals. Jupiter is a true artist with incredible ears for different Sennheisers and can make a set of cans that are truly suited to you and your preferences, within reason at least based on what serial number range your HD 800 falls in. Jupiter also has probably heard more pairs of HD 800 than anyone else on the planet, and has an encyclopedic type knowledge about the tonality and technicality of different serial number ranges, so just ask him! I have heard/owned 4 different JAR 800 models over the course of this journey and each of them has had their strengths and (relative to each other) weaknesses. For example, I owned both the 21k serial number V2 that was out on loaner tour a bit, and now a 2k (LSN-low serial number) V2, and they are quite a bit different. The former is more a super 650, the latter more of a super 600. The 21k is much lusher, thicker, warmer, bassier, but at a bit more expense of soundstage, a more intimate sounding 800 but with all the technicality of an 800. The LSN preserves more of the original HD 800 DNA and only has an ever so slight reduction in stage, but the bass is a bit more reserved, and it prioritizes air and separation. A person could honestly own both for both music if their pockets are deep enough.

    Gear

    Here is a list of a variety of amps/DACs I have listened to these different variants on over my time as a JAR 800 owner.
    • DNA Starlett
    • ZDS
    • Folkvanger
    • SW51+
    • Enleum AMP 23-R
    • Holo Bliss
    • Vali 2+
    • Nitsch Piety
    • Line Magnetic Mini
    • Schiit Yggdrasil LIM
    • Holo May DAC
    • Hifi Rose 150B
    Listening Impressions

    It is hard to properly encapsulate over a year of listening to these headphones, so going to try to just cut the chase and paint a picture of what you can expect with these. You will see in some other upcoming loaner impressions that I use these as a comparison set of cans (as I did in my Atrium impressions with my V1 pair here: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ew-and-measurements.12125/page-13#post-395925), and will get into some more specific tracks in those write-ups. So consider these impressions a baseline for comparison's sake.

    I think the real strength of the JAR 800 mod is two-fold, in that it makes the HD 800 sound more refined while simultaneously making it more realistic and natural sounding. Sounds impossible right? Seems it would be hard to achieve one not at the expense of the other, but somehow Jupiter has pulled it off. Any sense of glare/sibilance/artificial sheen of the stock headphones is gone. That alone would make these a slam dunk for HD 800 fans, but it doesn’t stop there. The mids, while maybe not quite HD 6X0 lush, are significantly less buried. Things are more forward, but not fatiguing. The delicate balance that is walked here is things are more vivid and pop out of the mix more, but without being too in your face. Guitars in particular just absolutely blow me away on these. When doing A-B comparisons with other cans, guitars just have that bit of vivid immediacy that gets you toe-tapping and leaning in.

    The real showstopper is much better bass texture, technicality, and impact. Jupiter is a magician to have conjured this much bass out of the 800. That 21k serial number pair I sold on here recently in particular had just about the best bass I have ever heard out of a set of headphones. Never strays into bloated, not just an overblown bass canon or EQ boost, but a fleshy, textured presentation that really bumps these up into a world-class set of headphones. I recently did a comparison with the Caldera loaner, and bass quantity and slam were quite comparable between the two cans. Only the ETA O2 edged it out on bass quantity.

    If you had to dig out one con or drawback to the mod, it is the soundstage reduction, as others have noted. How much this is going to bug you is going to come down to personal preference and how much you are accustomed to the HD 800 stage. I personally find the stock HD 800 stage to be a bit artificial feeling and the tradeoff of a slightly scaled-down stage to be one that also creates a more natural presentation. I was listening to some orchestral stuff during some recent headphone impressions A-B testing, and the JAR 800 still has every bit of the full concert hall effect, natural reverb and strings, just a tad less cavernous. I will note that the amount of soundstage reduction varies. The 21k I had is much more intimate sounding and presents more like a standard (albeit large) headphone headstage. Kind of welcome to folks bugged by how big and diffuse the 800 stage is. While the 2k LSN pair I have you would be hard-pressed to call it a reduction of the stock HD 800. You can really swim around in the details of this pair. I do want to note that separation is still very good in every pair I have tried, just some variability as to how much space between everything.

    Conclusion

    If it is not obvious at this point, these headphones receive my full wholehearted endorsement. For the right people these can truly be the endgame set of cans you didn’t know you were looking for. Please just be aware that this is not a cheap mod, but having compared a JAR 800 with other headphones in a similar price bracket once you factor mod cost + a used set of HD 800, the JAR 800 can easily go toe-to-toe with cans in that price bracket, and for many of us will come out on top.

    I think it is important to recognize that at its core, this is still an HD 800. If folks just absolutely hated that headphone stock, they may still want to look elsewhere, or at the very least work with Jupiter to identify a pair that will be more tailored to their preferences and that he feels a certain sound signature is achievable on. I also found that the JAR 800 is still best on tubes. Liked them a lot via the Holo Bliss and Enleum AMP 23-R, but they were truly transcendent when paired with a tube amp like the DNA or EC stuff.

    I just want to thank Jupiter for sharing this passion project with the community, the JAR 800 is a true labor of love for him that he has poured countless hours and dollars into achieving his desired results. I think with what he has achieved the 800 gets to make a late in life comeback and truly go toe-to-toe with the new generation of summit-fi cans out there.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
  12. Failed Engineer

    Failed Engineer Friend

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    Has anyone got ears on a v3? By email, Jupiter thinks it's at least a good iterative improvement, but I'm intentionally being measured about his exact words. Will let him chime in if he'd like so I don't mis-interpret him.
     
  13. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    I think there's only 1 around at this point, and last I heard it was in Jupiter's hands. From what he's told me about it, I plan to send mine in to get them updated to V3. I love mine, but he sounded pretty enthusiastic about V3. He and I seem to share preferences, so that tells me I'll likely be glad I did.
     
  14. ext1

    ext1 MOT: Jupiter Audio Research

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    Hi! So yes I have the only v3 because it's been finalized only recently. I think it can get a little even better than now with just a little more work. I'm calling it v3 because its a big next step, and for the first time I'm thinking that every 800 out there regardless of serial can sound insanely good. I consider it a vertical upgrade, not a sidegrade. I don't push out developments unless I think it's vertical.

    I am thinking of sending a pair on tour if I can cobble up enough funds, but because of what happened to my JAR800S previously on tour I'm still debating what's the best way to go about doing it. But I will work on @Erroneous 's pair first and also @CEE TEE 's.

    I've gotten great feedback from my local Korean friends, so I know I'm not crazy. But probably their impressions won't really mean much to the folks here. But yes the point is that some other ears other than me have heard it and agreed with me.
     
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