LHLabs Geek Out V2 vs V2+

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Bill-P, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Okay, so... I have had these two for a while now, and... I think I'm ready to talk about the sound. But wait, they're different!? Yes, or at least they sound different for my system, and my ears. The difference is subtle though... depending on the track, and some tracks show it pretty obviously, but some don't at all.

    [​IMG]

    So, let's talk about the GOv2. I think the GOv2 is absolutely awesome. Probably the most resolving amp/DAC in its class, and maybe even for any DAC in its price point. That's crazy. The tonality is also very neutral, and with just a very small hint of brightness/peak. That's amazing! For a Sabre DAC, it doesn't sound like Sabre at all, and it gets dangerously close to R2R territory. But that's where the GOv2+ comes in.

    GOv2+ is... different. It's almost like the HD650 to the HD600 of the GOv2. The tonality is definitely darker and warmer, and I mean that as in: it has more lower mid and also less air. It also sounds a bit less sibilant, and with a bit softer impact as well. On some tracks, this gives a more relaxed presentation that fits some genres better, but the side effect is also that it's a bit muddy, wooly, and maybe veiled? It's definitely not as resolving as GOv2. Even when both are used as pure DACs, the GOv2 is still more resolving, although tonality between the two are closer then. (I think the amp is the thing that commands most of "tonality" in this case, but I could be wrong)

    GOv2+ overall sounds like it has a bit more distortion at lower frequencies than GOv2. I wasn't able to capture this in measurements, but it's quite audible. Bass is cleaner, more tactile, and more impactful with GOv2 compared to GOv2+. Conversely, impact/attack of GOv2+ is a bit... softened and blurred compared to GOv2. It is almost like the effect of a tube amp vs a solid state amp, but not quite...

    Personally... I can't really quite say one is better than the other. They both work for different cases. Sometimes, the neutrality of the GOv2 can be a bit too much to a bright recording, and that's where the GOv2+ makes the recording very listenable. Other times, the GOv2+ can sound too veiled, too lifeless, and the GOv2 will liven up the sound.

    So, it actually makes sense to own both, I think. GOv2 will work better with darker headphones (HD650?), and GOv2+ will work better with brighter headphones (HD600?) if you're willing to sacrifice a bit of resolution.

    Oh, how about using something like Regen or Wyrd with GOv2+? Wyrd doesn't quite work with GOv2 IMO. I think what's happening is that GOv2 may be drawing too much power from Wyrd, and then Wyrd shuts off, causing GOv2 to not receive enough power as well. You may damage your GOv2 this way, so... it is highly advisable that you don't use your GOv2 with Wyrd. GOv2+ does work with Wyrd, and Wyrd does help a tiny little bit with resolution, but ultimately, I think GOv2 is still a wee bit more resolving.

    And... that's it. If you have done this comparison yourself, I'd love to know what you think. :)

    Headphone used was my modded Sennheiser HD 580, in case you're wondering.
     
  2. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Interesting observation. I wonder if the battery and associated circuitry is having something to do with it?
     
  3. Type35

    Type35 New

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    Thanks Bill-P, very interesting findings. Did you try to run the GOv2 with a battery pack and a split USB cable? It would be interesting to compare the two units in this configuration.
     
  4. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    GOV2 works with the Wyrd, its just that at first turn on of the Wyrd, if the GOV2 is plugged in, it doesn't initialize or something like that. Pulling the GOV2 out and the plugging it back in again does the trick. I just leave both on most of the time to avoid having to do this. Neither the Wyrd or the GOV2 seem adversely affected at this point after several months.
     
  5. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    Huh. With iems I found the GOv2+ too bright for my tastes. Perhaps it is relaxed in comparison to the GOv2 but I didn't find it to be relaxed on its own. Maybe things are a little different with less effecient fullIsize headphones?
     
  6. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    I did actually. It didn't really change much, if at all, though that config did allow GOv2 to be used with iOS devices and some Android devices. This difference persists.

    If you're using it strictly as a DAC, I think this works. But if you're using it with the amp section as well, as a DAC/amp, it'll actually die more often than not when used at max gain, etc... I've had it do this with some orthos (HE-5, to be more precise) and HD600/650 on max gain at high volume. I'm guessing GOv2 is drawing too much power from the Wyrd, and Wyrd itself doesn't like that. And no, this isn't because the Wyrd is modded. I have tried this with both a regular original non-modded Wyrd and a Wyrd with cap mods, and they both behave like that.

    I haven't tried GOv2 with a split cable... plus battery, and then Wyrd, but you can see how that setup is simply too clunky. GOv2+ and Wyrd is the much simpler setup here.

    It could be the IEM? I have an ear bud that I use from time to time, and the difference persists with that ear bud, so...

    If the GOv2+ is too bright/aggressive for you, I think GOv2 will be even more so.
     
  7. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    It was with the UERM and AR6. That's been the only pairing I've not cared for them with. It's also been the only Sabre pairing I've tried them with as well.

    Edit- I should add I liked it better with my relatively darker iems.
     
  8. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, I'm not surprised then. I think UERM has a bit of a treble peak already?

    I should note that it's not like GOv2+ is smoother sounding than GOv2. It really isn't. It just has a bit of extra oomph/body down low due to maybe slightly more bass distortion, and then the top end rolls off, but otherwise, it's just about as sharp sounding as GOv2. Maybe a wee bit less sibilant with certain tracks, but not significantly so.

    Both GOv2 and GOv2+ do a very good job of not sounding very much like typical Saber DACs, but... I think sometimes that character still shows.
     
  9. Tarocco

    Tarocco New

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    The GOv2 is such an odd little thing. The build quality is just terrible - the case is really ugly, the usb connector bends easily and it runs super hot. It sounds so good though, especially for the price. I haven't heard the v2+ but I'd like to. Did you try either with the balanced output?
     
  10. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Does it sound like the + is tuned differently, or could it be a case of production variation?
     
  11. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    I tried both balanced and single-ended output with both. The difference still persists. Although balanced out is similarly better than single-ended on both of them in the same way: better control, better clarity, and louder.

    The secret is... this is not just my observation, but that of some others who have had the opportunity to compare with me (with their own GOv2 and GOv2+). With them, it's brief (like about 30 minutes at most), so that's why they haven't said anything. I spent weeks to make sure of this before posting. But still, I'd say... take all of this as just my opinions.

    I think what it is is basically that the battery power supply is different from a constant voltage source (USB), so the regulation for both is different. Due to this difference in power supply design, I think the Class A circuitry or some other part had to be changed accordingly, and maybe that's what's causing this difference. In the perfect scenario, we'd hope that both devices sound the same, but there are limitations.
     
  12. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Well, as I already own a GOv2 and love the sound, this puts my mind at ease to not worry about getting a +. I may try doing the battery and split USB cable trick to have it work with my iPhone though!
     
  13. Benny-x

    Benny-x New

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    I wonder what changes the Infinity versions will have vs. the standard ones? Then there are the Signature Edition ones too.

    Has anyone heard the V2 Infinity? I'm pretty sure it's out, along with the SE version, though the V2+ Infinity for sure isn't.
     
  14. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    LOL at the absolutely crap build quality of both units, even the V2+ with the revised case looks like it will fall apart any second, if I didn't know better I'd think it was a joke. Thanks for the comparo.
     
  15. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    all I can say is that even the GOV2+Inf second generation case is not the final case.
    more to be announced one day....
     
  16. Muse Wanderer

    Muse Wanderer Friend

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    One wouldn't mind the wait but the constant moving of goal-posts of a supposedly finished product is the frustrating part of this GO V2+ saga.
    I am almost going to pull the trigger on a UERR.
    The only issue I have is that I do not have a phone friendly portable DAC/AMP that kicks ass!
    GO V2+ looked like the best option but it has to exist as a ready to buy product.
    I am thinking about GO V2 with portable battery and USB splitter, but if I have to go through that hassle might as well get the Mojo.

    At the same price level, is there a good alternative that would drive UERR and (why not) the HD800S?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  17. Griffon

    Griffon 2nd biggest asshole on SBAF

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    Haven't heard it myself, but Oppo HA-2 might fit your bill.
     
  18. Muse Wanderer

    Muse Wanderer Friend

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    Oppo HA-2 looks good but form factor is not important as long as it is portable
    Haven't heard much praise for the HA-2 sound though.
    If the sound does not blow me away than might as well stick to my phone jack for the UERR
    At the moment I am thinking Mojo or wait it out for the V2+ another year?!
     
  19. jowls

    jowls Never shitposts (please) - Friend

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    I am happy with Mojo for UERR. It also drives HD6x0 reasonably well (not as well as balanced GOV2) but I wouldn't use HD6x0 mobile anyhow so it is a little redundant. I am done with LH as a company so my V2+ Infinity will be for up for sale as soon as it arrives.

    UERR seems to benefit from an amp but if you want an easy mobile solution just get UE4 and plug it into your iphone.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  20. bclark8923

    bclark8923 New

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    Will we get new cases for our existing ones (when those finally arrive) ?
     

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