Life after Yggdrasil: Watering the Ash

Well I agree , good compass to go by , next step is to listen to them .

 

I too wanted to eliminate the extra A>D and D>A from my DDRC -88A (once I became a Yggdrasil owner) at least in the two front channels. But I still wanted Room Correction. I now use Home Audio Fidelity https://www.homeaudiofidelity.com/english/home/
for RC... You send them (Thierry) REW results of your room measurements and he ends you back files that install in Roon's DSP program....works great and now I know I am not waisting what the Yggdrasil does for my 2-channel listening.

He can modify one or two of your reference recordings so you can hear what his filters do for your room correction before you buy.

 

A friend of mine is looking for a smaller alternative to a Yggdrasil (he's looking for it to be, at max, a third of the size of the Yggdrasil) that's just a pure DAC (he emphasized no volume knob and headphone jack at all) that he can pair with his ifi pro ican. Do you have any recommendation on which one you reviewed so far? He's not expecting 1:1 performance as a Yggdrasil, just a smaller one that's close to it as possible.

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/modi-multibit-multibit-for-the-masses.2494/

 

Is that a good pairing with the iCan Pro?

 

Long story short, this thing is better than deltasigma dacs (vast majority of them). How much better and is it audible is up to discussion. It is inherently better though for sure, and cheap. Whatever you connect it to, it should be transparent, and that matters most. For me at least, knowing your gear behaves well makes me happy. Try to dig some measurements if you can find them, see for your self. Is it worth the extra cash? Only you can answer this. Tell your friend to try and spend some time with the thing before purchase, if possible, and to try to remain as objective if possible, if he so desires, of course. If you/he prefer/s subjective experience, that's fine too. The best would be to try it with his gear, if possible, and keep these things in mind.

Now another point here is, ican-pro supports balanced inputs. Modi works only in unbalanced mode as far as I know. Now, if implemented correctly, balanced is almost always better. I don't really care about it much and multibit should matter more in this scenario (if you have no ground loops / pc noise issues), but, it's still better, so why not take advantage of it?

The thing that's going to be the biggest difference is the sonic fit of headphones enclosure, dimensions, pads, your pal's head (and outer/middle ear), and drivers, and it's important not to mismatch the headphone to the amp (you can actually do this sometimes). Which heaphones does he use? ican has an optional tube stage too, now, I have no idea of the thing's topology in detail, but if it's used as an output stage, that could cause problems with low impedance dynamic type headphones. I'm sure people here can fill you in better once we actually know what headphones he's using.

 

Well, he's using the ADX5000 for his headphones. His main problem with the Yggdrasil is that since his job requires him to be in a completely different place (he doesn't exactly have a home-home, in a sense that he either stays in hotels or rents a place for 3 months max and then moves on to another place), and moving the large DAC around has been problematic for him. The best he's described to me on how he wants his experience is how the Yggdrasil and the ican-pro sounds on his ADX5000, and that's basically it, and he's willing to have something sound close to what the Yggdrasil gives for a smaller size, and he just wants the DAC to be a pure dac (no volume pot and no headphone out) as sheer preference.

 

In that case I know of no better alternative. I'd also be interested in such, if someone knows about a cheaper multibit dac, but I doubt it. Also I forgot to mention, Schiit has proprietary filters for upsamplings too, so, best to keep it schiit if he wants to get that ygdrassil-like experience as much as possible. Also, his headphones should work fine (as in, without impedance effects on linearity) with any amps. Now, tonality wise and that other sonic stuff and pairings, I don't know. I've heared them, didn't like them.

 

Well, I just got to ask him his budget... he's vague about it, but he says aslong as its not more expensive than the Yggdrasil's MSRP, with the heavy emphasis on the DAC having to be a third of the size (as well as not having a volume pot and a headphone out) and close enough sound-wise and performance. A part of me just wants to recommend him the ADI-2 DAC since he also likes it (but doesn't want it due to it having a volume pot and headphone outs).

 

The Chord Qutest might work, as long as you're not trying to stack the Pro iCAN on it. It does, at least, come in a relatively tiny box and sounds very good. Not fantastic value, but the performance is fundamentally there.

Other than that, nothing comes to mind that'd both properly meet those criteria and be something I've actually reviewed. The worthwhile, performance-comparable (with regards to the Pro iCAN's capabilities), DACs in that form factor almost all have integrated headphone amps and/or volume controls. And the ones that I like, that don't have those extraneous features, are generally not going to measure up to Yggdrasil all that closely (Bifrost MB, Modi MB, RDAC, maybe some of the MHDT units).

If I expanded what I considered to things I've heard, but not necessarily reviewed in depth, then maybe the Metrum Onyx would fit the bill. Might be pushing it on size though.

Beyond those ...

I would have suggested for that use case just ditching the Pro iCAN and getting the Pro iDSD (w/ 4.4mm option), since it's the same form-factor and is both DAC and amp, as well as a source. Which would make it quite nice as a transportable unit. Unfortunately the couple of hours I've gotten to spend playing with one of those so far were not encouraging in any respect.

I'll be getting my hands on the Holo Audio CYAN (both PCM and DSD versions) in the next few days, and the DSD version of that is a pure-DAC. If that performs well, it might be an option.

Otherwise you're either looking at DACs that I don't particularly care for (a litany of buzzword-bingo compliant XMOS/ESS no-name Chinese stuff) to meet your criteria.

 

That seems to make a lot more sense as a product than the Hugo 2 to me- I always found Chord's various built-in headphone not-amps* deeply underwhelming, part of a list of boondoggles that their products great and small are burdened with.

A straight-out DAC with a line out and little extra guff is a refreshingly honest and straightforward proposition by their standards. Yeah, sure, Qutest is still arguably a bit overpriced and people with space might enjoy the Gungnir Multibit more at not much more cost, but it's waaaaaaay closer to sane than most Chord DAC propositions. Shocked to find myself not recoiling in horror at the suggestion.



* I forget what twaddle the HF faithful parrot whenever you accuse the DAVE or even the Mojo of having a headphone amp, but let's just assume that a Watts fluffer has already done so.

 

So since people are asking for DAC advice here.....

I'd love a Yggdrasil, just for its reputation, but it's not in my price range (would be close to 4K CDN). I'm very happy with my Modi Multibit, I think it sounds as good or damn close to the PCM 1701 based CDP it replaced in my system. I'm currently leaning towards a Gungnir Multibit, but I have read really good things about Soekris as well. The 1321 would be a significant cost saving, and I'm intrigued by the customizable filters. I listen strictly to 16/44.1 sources over coax, so I don't need USB performance, headphone out, and I don't really need balanced. Given that, do you think the two devices are comparable in SQ?

(I know, it would be best if I could listen to them both, preferably side by side, but that is not going to be possible. I usually buy something and stick with it for quite a while - I have lots of other expensive hobbies so I'm not chasing the unicorn here, just looking for learned impressions from those with the experience)

 

Personally, I put the dac1541 (and for the most part, the 1421) in about the same ballpark as Gungnir MB.

The 1321, on firmware/filter version 1.2, was not something I felt was that great. There's a certain "magic" to the presentation of the 1421 and 1541 (specifically the highly "pristine" delivery and resolution) that I don't feel is realized by the 1321. There are cheaper DACs that I prefer over the 1321.

 

Thanks!

The 1421 is still a cost saving, though less so. Given it will be connected to a Freya and a Vidar there is a value to keeping all my Schiit the same as well, so probably I will just stick with my original plan. But of course I will keep reading reviews from the fine folks here right up till (and no doubt even after) I decide to pull the trigger on whatever. Keep up the good work.

 

@Torq, where would you locate the Onyx/Jade on the 1541 to Yggdrasil spectrum?

 

I'll be sure to let him know of this. Thank you very much. And I didn't know the iDSD is already out.

 

It's hard to say, since they're more different in their raw presentation/signature than almost any other trio of higher-end DACs that I could name (short of including a Spring DAC in the list). A lot of how they rank, for any individual, will come down to their preferences with regards to NOS vs. OS implementations and overall desires in regards to the signature they are after.

I can say that I wouldn't buy an Onyx at $2,400 when the Gungnir MB is $1,249. And while the current $250 premium the dac1541 carries over the Gungnir MB is easily defensible if you need/want an all-in-one - but as a pure-DAC my personal preference there would still be the Gungnir Multibit.

So, absent a strong preference for the signature of the Onyx, it'd rank last among those three if value was a factor (and I do, in general, enjoy both NOS and OS DACs). Part of that cost comes from the dealer-sales model Metrum employ. Both Schiit and Soekris sell direct giving them, typically, at least a 2x price advantage. If value wasn't considered, then it'd be a toss-up between the Gungnir MB and Onyx for my personal preferences, but the dac1541 might well appeal more to those who's focus is on absolute in-your-face clarity/apparent resolution.

 

thank you!

 

I think the more important word is unbiased

 

So far I am seeing the only competition to Gungnir MB are the newer discreet ladder dacs.

Still very few of them can match Yggdrasil.
Most of them extremely expensive.
Only the Holo Spring is in competitive price range, which I moved onto from older Yggdrasil with "A" board.

I would have stayed with the Yggdrasil if it were not for my experience with QC issues (relays clicking, grounding, PSU transformer loose, and the overall degredation of the PSU that I noticed from an improvement of my Gen5 upgade, when they finally replaced the whole motherboard.)

I do still think Yggdrasil is worth it because of its extreme realism, and the newer units are said to sound better.

I have a slightly different interpretation of music soundstage with the Holo wich I enjoy and to me its in the same ballpark of realism and enjoyment but I do not feel it supasses Yggdrasil except in some small instances of detailing where the Yggdrasil most probably places those details more integrated and less noticable.
This is variable and the best generalization I could think is that the Yggdrasil is more relaxed over the Holo slight forwardness.

So different interpretation of stage, but on par realism, most likely because once you hit full realism, all thats left to differentiate the dacs are their presentation of the music.
With Yggdrasil there is probably not any higher resolve you can go except for signature preferences wich we see in the various other uber expensive discreet ladder dacs.

Although this trend of discreet ladder dacs, or the schiit chip ladder dacs seems like the way to go,
Both LaSabre & AKM have come out with newer Delta Sigma chips that are not seen in dacs yet. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

So we could see Dac improvements across the board with newer dacs.
Yet that will take time and is a gamble at best when you look at how high the performance bar has been raised by Schiit in the Dac market.

So yeah you see I give schiit full credit for raising the Dac market,
To the benifit of all,
and at same time schiit on them for their design choices wich I would never agree with, like putting any PSU transformer directly on a board, secured or not, and other things, but thats my preference.
I'm not dealing with that.