Literacy is your friend

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by drandall, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. drandall

    drandall New

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    After reading the review, I still don’t have a good sense of whether you actually liked or disliked it. Did it have any glaring deficiencies? Did it do anything particularly well? Was the sound enjoyable? dull? tinny?

    Any more generalized impressions you could share?

    Many thanks!

     
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Did you read the second paragraph in the first post?

    Did I mention any? If not, no.

    Did I say the sound was dull or tinny? If not, probably not.

    Do you read the comparisons with the Mani and F-117 Nighthawk in the second post? I may have mentioned a few sonic qualities and how they compared.

    Not really. The reason is that generalized impressions are flowery bullshit and useless. The problem with generalized impressions is that any review could still "stand" after a simple find and replace operation on [PRODUCT]. Allow me to show you an example:

    Turning the volume up on the amp, the soundstage was immense on this little wonder of the [Zen Phono] and I could hear clearly the beautiful instrumentation in layered sections, even at louder than normal listening levels (not recommended) never did the [Zen Phono] falter and the extension seemed endless.

    The imaging remained sharp and focused and the layering of the stage never collapsed while recreating the performance flawlessly. The sound was breathtaking and the [Zen Phono] once again captured the spirit of this wonderful recording.

    The second track “Life’s Not Fair” by Hans Zimmer once again captured the beautiful instrumentation of the electronic instruments with finesse and never omitted any part of the performance. The beautifully composed tune had a deep and immense layering of the soundstage.

    The sounds of the stage in this track are immense and the [Zen Phono] once again delivered the performance without a hitch. Impressive and at times majestic the [Zen Phono] did not disappoint in making this tune come to life.

    Now let's replace [Zen Phono] with [HD800]

    Turning the volume up on the amp, the soundstage was immense on this little wonder of the [HD800] and I could hear clearly the beautiful instrumentation in layered sections, even at louder than normal listening levels (not recommended) never did the [HD800] falter and the extension seemed endless.

    The imaging remained sharp and focused and the layering of the stage never collapsed while recreating the performance flawlessly. The sound was breathtaking and the [HD800] once again captured the spirit of this wonderful recording.

    The second track “Life’s Not Fair” by Hans Zimmer once again captured the beautiful instrumentation of the electronic instruments with finesse and never omitted any part of the performance. The beautifully composed tune had a deep and immense layering of the soundstage.

    The sounds of the stage in this track are immense and the [HD800] once again delivered the performance without a hitch. Impressive and at times majestic the [HD800] did not disappoint in making this tune come to life.
    Heck, why not [My hairy balls]

    Turning the volume up on the amp, the soundstage was immense on this little wonder of the [My hairy balls] and I could hear clearly the beautiful instrumentation in layered sections, even at louder than normal listening levels (not recommended) never did the [My hairy balls] falter and the extension seemed endless.

    The imaging remained sharp and focused and the layering of the stage never collapsed while recreating the performance flawlessly. The sound was breathtaking and the [My hairy balls] once again captured the spirit of this wonderful recording.

    The second track “Life’s Not Fair” by Hans Zimmer once again captured the beautiful instrumentation of the electronic instruments with finesse and never omitted any part of the performance. The beautifully composed tune had a deep and immense layering of the soundstage.

    The sounds of the stage in this track are immense and the [My hairy balls] once again delivered the performance without a hitch. Impressive and at times majestic the [My hairy balls] did not disappoint in making this tune come to life.
    The above is the reason I rarely write generalized impressions. Without context, without comparison, they are useless. If I never heard anything better, they would be true - but still useless.
     
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  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    More seriously, I do have a peculiar writing style which takes getting use to. At times, when I feel like it, I will use hyperbole. Other times, when I feel I actually want to be taken more seriously, I don't.

    One of the strongest kinds of recommendation I can give is "this is a f'ing great deal". I am pretty sure that I said that or something very close to that effect. When I say "this is a f'ing great deal", it usually means that I like it enough to recommend it for others and also myself. Sometimes I will recommend gear for others but not myself, but I don't think this is the case here.

    In terms of absolutes, such as scores, S Tier, A Tier, four stars, five stars, 92.13% score or whatever, I am very hesitant to do that because people's personal preferences and systems vary. What I try to do is compare with other well known quantities or "references" near the same price point or up a bit so folks can get an idea how a piece of gear may fit into their system. No idea of how the references sound like? Tough titties then. We all have to start somewhere. Gotta ante up that $99 or $199 to play. Or just read and read and read. Not just here, but elsewhere, and triangulate disparate sources to maybe get an idea how something may sound.

    Oftentimes I get messages in PM asking me about X or Y. I rarely give a flat out recommendations. I ask what do you have now? What do you like or don't like about your system? Where to you want to go? What if there are tradeoffs? What are you willing to lose to gain? What's your vision, if you even have one yet?

    I've probably avoided flat-out "I like this" more and more over time because I want to instill into readers that component synergy and overall system is much more important than a bunch of random best-of-class pieces of gear, cables, and sundry accessories put together. I guarantee you that if you take a random $4000 headphone, $4000 phonostage, $4000 turntable, $4000 headamp, and $4000 cartridge, all "highly recommended awesomesauce rated by AudioPhool magazine", the overall system has a 1/3 chance of sounding like shit, 1/3 chance of sounding mediocre, and a 1/3 chance of sounding decent good - this knowing that a $4000 total system can sound better, that is superb.

    The question should not be whether "I like it", but whether this worth it for the money, and will it suit your requirements (component synergy and personal preferences). The latter can be, must be established via interaction, asking questions, etc.

    Finally, if there are any glaring weaknesses or showstoppers, I won't hesitate to point them out. I used to have the reputation of being quite vicious in doing so. There's more reading into the lines these days; however if directly asked to clarify on hints that I may have laid out, I will respond with brutal honesty.
     
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  4. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    I call bullshit. "Little wonder" and "My hairy balls" very obviously do not belong together. Back to What Hi-Fi with you.
    </shitpost>
     
  5. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    I'm beating a dead horse after @purr1n 's response, but did you actually read the review? The second sentence says he would immediately buy it over anything under $800. Does that sound like he doesn't like it?
     
  6. drandall

    drandall New

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    First off, I’d like to thank everyone for the warm welcome.

    Secondly, I’m sorry. I missed the the line about the Zen Phono being his choice under $800. If I had seen that, I wouldn’t have posted and everyone would be having a better day right now.

    But that being said, if I hadn’t posted....Purr1n would have missed his chance to dole out some frontier justice on the ass of a newbie who clearly doesn’t understand the worthlessness of subjective reviews, the necessity of detailed comparisons to hardware he should already have heard if not owned, the precise vocabulary that makes questions not only unnecessary but insulting, and of course, the scientific method.

    So please forgive my ignorance. Your chastisement, so proper and merciful, has put me on a better path. One day, as I am kicking some newb for asking a dumb question, I will remember today and silently bless you for showing me the proper way to do it.
     
  7. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    dude its a $150 phono stage you can buy from many online retailers including Amazon and return at little to no cost if you don't like it. what more do you want? it's one thing to be a noob and ask questions, it's another thing to have a sense of entitlement over information you are getting for free online.

    im pretty sure michael fremer will review this thing soon and give you the gratification you desire before you click Buy
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    To be clear, I don't mind questions. Anyone could have followed up with questions such as "how much more clear sounding was this over the Mani?", or even something dumb like "how well does this do in terms of slam?"

    There is never such thing as a stupid question. However, basic literacy and care in reading (not skimming) what is already written are basic requirements.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  9. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Dude....

    As someone who is also in Duval like you are, don't make us look bad. If you not understanding the dislikes, we can talk 1:1 as Jax bros. However, the posts here explains everything on why you are getting the dislikes.
     
  10. drandall

    drandall New

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    I’m sorry that I didn’t read the review more closely...and I’m certainly sorry I asked a dumb question in my second post here. That’s on me.

    What’s on you is the way you responded, in a dismissive and unfriendly tone that made me feel both unwelcome and stupid.

    I probably will just go back to reading these forum. I’m not sure I want to try posting again. Lesson learned.
     
  11. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Hey man, take it from a local. You are welcome to post here, but I would recommend reading this carefully. If you read this link carefully, it would answer some questions you might have.
     
  12. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    The forum's response was brusque, but not without reason as implied by the title. It's effective at discouraging noise and making sure that people who stick around can handle abrasive natures, sure that's cool, but I think people on the muzzle end tend to read too much into it and are more hurt than rightful when it's really just their actions being chastised.

    I know there are loads of record spinners on here but they're really a minority within a niche— I only speak for myself but it'd be cool to have more around to let digital peeps know why no one sane would willingly put up with an outdated medium ;)

    Edit: what the boomer-in-spirit above said.
     
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  13. HotRatSalad

    HotRatSalad Friend

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    It's ok to just read and lurk and ingest. Probably a good idea, I still read much more than post. The world wants you to think you have to say things. It's not true, quality not quantity.
     
  14. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Yeah, this is probably part of why SBAF is labeled as cultish at places like reddit or parts of HF, but at the same time, you yourself say you didn't read more closely and it says in bold bright letters up top "Not a normal forum."

    That and if calling people out for their mistakes to keep things on track and/or making sure we don't have too many "Hold my hand while I spend my money I was going to spend anyways" makes us cultish... well then, hand me the SBAF kool aid, SBAF nikes, and the cat shaped tin foil hat or whatever.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Don't stress out too much about it. Many of our best members have started out exactly like you.
     
  16. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    I think people just sorta forget what internet communities used to be like before now. They've gotten used to the all-inclusive 'maximize engagement' approach. So a community that goes a little against that comes off as hostile even when it's not. It takes some getting used to. I found it refreshing, because it reminded me a little bit of the days when things were more close-knit in hobby communities. Of course it was never about putting people down - the restrictiveness was just considered upkeep. But because of that, people involved had more of a stake and thus were better to each other and their communities in less obvious ways. Survival was probably more of a factor, too. "Too much content" just wasn't a thing. It was often harder to keep people posting at all. Direction and unity was a hard requirement to be ignored at the peril of fizzling. Now, not so much.
     
  17. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    hahahaha thank you for the laugh. I think this is the best post I’ve read here on SBAF. Reminds me of the Changstar days. Cheers buddy
     
  18. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I ask stupid questions too but usually because I’m just not caught up in the audio world or am new to a product that came out a while ago and I can’t possibly read a 50 page thread to find an answer to a specific question.
     
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Oh god... The day I got mobbed, on a USENET group, for not typing IMHO when what I had said was obviously opinion and obviously mine. And sod humility.
     
  20. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    Lol... yeahhh that was the not-so-good side heh

    People still do that one on reddit sometimes. Ive seen it a few times. That, and the "That's your opinion" defense. What do you say to that? Apologize for thinking you were having a conversation or something?

    Compared to that kinda stuff, SBAF is pretty friendly.
     

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