Looking for Mid-Fi Recommendations

Discussion in 'Leaderboard, Overboard, and Deals' started by BrettMatthews, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. BrettMatthews

    BrettMatthews Friend

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    Hello everyone, I'm new in this area (been on head-fi for a while), but have been enjoying the more friendly nature of things over on this side. I apologize in advance for the lengthy post.

    I am a bit stuck and am looking for some recommendations on some gear. Currently I own a pair of Beyer DT880 600ohm, HD650, and an ODA O2/ODAC. In the past I have had an HE-400 , DT770 250, a HD600, and a Bottlehead Crack with speedball. The setups all along have been powered from my custom built PC, using Foobar or MusicBee, using WASAPI.

    The HE-400 was pretty good but not overly comfortable. I mostly sold it because I wanted to try something different. From there I got the HD600 and initially I really enjoyed it with the O2, but I thought I would give it a go with a Bottlehead Crack. Overall I thought this was a pretty good combo but I mostly sold it because it still wasn't the exact sound I was looking for and a lot of what I use my headphones and computer for is gaming, so I didn't think that tubes did the best for that not as much because they colored the sound but more so because they will die overtime.

    So that brings me to where I am now. I purchased the DT880's a little bit ago and I have to say they are the most comfortable headphone I've owned so far! However I am pretty sure that the O2 isn't giving these what they deserve as they were sounding a bit a flat. So this week I got a set of HD650's from a friend and was planning on getting a GOV2 and running them balanced thinking that would suit me for a while. Since I grabbed the HD650's I have been doing some A/B testing between them and the DT880's and I think that I am finding that I am preferring the DT880's. To me the HD650's sound "veiled" they sound recessed in the mids to me at least. Now I'm not sure if that's due to the O2 or not, but considering how similar the HD600's are said to sound with the HD650's, to me so far they sound nothing a like on the same amp. The HD600's would have had more use on them than the HD650's (I was told less than 50 hours on the HD650's).

    I'm now here looking for a bit of advice on what to do with the gear. I am leaning towards getting a new amp for the DT880's and staying there, but even if I go that way I'm not sure what amp to go with and if I should be avoiding tubes if I am going to be doing some longer gaming sessions. If I go this route should I be looking to get a source new DAC as well if I sell the O2/ODAC? Or should I still be looking into getting the GOV2 and a balanced setup for the HD650, would there be that much of a difference?

    As for my budget I would prefer to keep it under or around $500 CAD (yes I'm Canadian), and I don't mind going used, and then will probably sell of the extras.

    Any help is greatly appreciated!
    Matthew

    UPDATE: http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...mid-fi-recommendations.1827/page-2#post-64434
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2016
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You've tried a lot of options already with Crack, O2, ODAC, etc. I really don't think you will get any major jump from where you have been with an expenditure of $500. GOV2 balanced for HD650/600 may be arguably very slightly better, but then again maybe not. I found a Magni 2U / Modi 2 stack slightly better overall than GOV2, but again same league. You may want to try the HD650 mods suggested here or just revert to the DT880 for regular use. Unless you have something specific about something you don't like about the O2/ODAC, I wouldn't go out spending more money, especially since you have a Crack with speedball around.

    Finally, I wouldn't worry about long gaming sessions with tube amps. Radars and avionics on warships and warplanes used to use tube electronics. I've left my tube gear on and forgotten to switch it off, and I will turn on my tube gear early in the evening when I get home and turn it off around midnight.
     
  3. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    I agree with Purrin that $500 CAD may not give you significant gains, especially if you're already sort of content with your current stuff. I'll throw out the idea of the HE-500, as I believe it's the only headphone that can compete with the HD650 for the price, and will give you a little different take on sound compared to the current dynamics you have. They're alright with an ODAC/O2, not ideal at all with the Crack though.

    Although, modding the 650's may be another (very cheap) solution...
     
  4. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    If you're talking about gaming the HD800 is very hard to beat and they're coming down in price on the second hand market, seen a few go for $700. I personally think it needs mods or EQ for music but if you're thinking about gaming and running from a computer it could be interesting.

    HD800 + Asus essence stx II or creative ZxR + a bit of EQ = The best gaming headphones ever devised by man
     
  5. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    880's are good for gaming. I had a pair + HD 600 at the same time once, still generally preferred the 880 (especially for comfort).
    Maybe aim for a good amp for your HD 650 for music, and relegate the 880 to purely gaming duty. That will free you from worrying about how you're amping it.
     
  6. Impulse

    Impulse Friend

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    I've ended up doing pretty much what @Eric_C suggests, tho not necessarily because of amping requirements... Ironically I went kinda backwards from @BrettMatthews 's trajectory (DT-880->Fidelio X2->HD600), and it's the Beyer which will probably find itself the odd can out for me (and end up sold).

    Anyway, I think it bears asking what kinda gaming you're talking about, because it can demand very different things from a pair of headphones... If you're talking about online gaming and competitive stuff, it's all about the soundstage which isn't always a top priority for music. Tonality and ultimate detail retrieval is pretty far down the list in that case, fun bottom end that doesn't obscure other cues is another big factor.

    On the other hand in you're talking strictly single player stuff then it's a whole other story... A lot of game audio isn't particularly high fidelity either way but many games do have pretty sweet soundtracks. Going back to online gaming for a sec, a lot of people opt for virtual surround software solutions to enhance that stage and down mix 5.1 audio, dunno if that's something you've tried...

    For me the DT-880 seemed like a solid all arounder right from the start but I quickly found better options for online/stage (tho it still does better than the HD6x0 in that regard) and eventually I think I've come to prefer other alternatives for music. You don't own the Crack anymore? It's not clear from your post whether you ever tried it with the Beyers, I would've guessed that to be a good pairing to tame it's treble.
     
  7. BrettMatthews

    BrettMatthews Friend

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    Hey guys, thanks for all the advice so far, it is much appreciated! I guess I didn't make it clear but I don't have the Bottlehead Crack anymore, I sold it a little while back before I got the DT880's so I haven't actually heard the Beyers on a tube amp. So I wouldn't be opposed to getting another tube amp (maybe a Valhalla 2 if I can find a good deal on one, or maybe a Garage 1217 amp?). Depending on the cost of the amp, ie. if I could find a good deal on a Garage 1217 amp I could probably keep the O2/ODAC and use it for gaming and the 1217 amp for music running off the RCA outs from the ODA.

    @purrin I had seen your review on the GOV2 and that's what actually had me considering it. So knowing now that I no longer have the crack is there anything else you would recommend?

    @PoochZag I'll look a bit more into the HE-500 but I am guessing the O2 probably isn't ideal for running them as I was even questioning if it was powering my HE-400 to capacity.

    @TwoEars Sadly the HD800 is out of my budget as in Canada they normally go for at least $850 plus.

    @Eric_C I thought about going that direction but would prefer to just have one setup to keep costs down. I have too many hobbies as is so I don't like to keep too much invested in each one at a time.

    @Impulse I play a bit of everything but nothing super competitive currently (mostly BF4). Depending on the game that I am playing I sometimes just listen to music (things like D3 or back in the day when I played WoW).
     
  8. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Mod your HD650 and get a Valhalla 2. It's an OTL tube amp but without that warm tubey sound you try away to stay away from. You won't be getting any significant improvement unless you jump to something like HD800(S), and even then there are many of those who prefer a modded HD650 to HD800. I preferred my modded HD650 to both stock and modded HD800. It was only when I got an HD800 and modded it that it finally won me over modded HD650. Very hard to beat.
     
  9. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    Looks like you don't need a headphone that's especially suited to gaming, then. (Again, like me--I'm forever casual)
    In that case the HD 650 is definitely the better headphone. Do you find the comfort ok? If the fit of the HD 650 works well for you just get the best amp you can afford and stick with it... Forever.
     
  10. rayfalkner

    rayfalkner Not to be confused with Roy Fokker - Friend

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    Don't you think a comfortable headphone with a built-in mic would be better for online gaming needs? And HD650 is a really, really nice piece of audio marvel, keep it, it will serve you well for the majority of your music needs.

    If HD650 somehow sounded veiled to you, I think it's just a wrong synergy with your settings or setup, or... might you probably got an older production HD650 with black drivers instead of the white/silver screen on the drivers?

    Tube amps... How about Garage1217 amps and Schiit DAC/amps? They are praised for their price-performance value around here, and they're not going to cost you your kidney too! ;)
     
  11. Impulse

    Impulse Friend

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    Seemed like he preferred the Beyers to me, dunno, thread/choices are all over the place but I went thru a similar sequence so I'm not hating on the process... ;) You can get something like a Modmic for the HD650, Beyers, etc tho. No need for a cheaper headset just for a mic.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Maybe Val 2. Drier and less bloomy than Crack, but more resolving. A good match with the HD650 if you still have it.
     
  13. BrettMatthews

    BrettMatthews Friend

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    Hey guys, thanks again for more recommendations! I do still have the DT880's and the HD650. I don't use a mic much and the quality of headsets are generally pretty crappy. Plus they are generally a poor value, if I needed a mic I would probably grab a mod mic or a blue yeti.

    How would an original Lyr pair with the DT880's and HD650? There is someone somewhat local that I'd selling one with a bunch of tubes and a bifrost for a pretty good price.

    I've thought about the Valhalla 2 but I'm having trouble finding a good deal on one in Canada. I've also been considering the Garage 1217 Project Horizon 3.

    @rayfalkner I'd be surprised if the synergy was that bad between the HD650 and the O2 as the O2 sounded pretty good with the HD600, not at all like this HD650. The HD650s are definitely the newer white screened version, my old HD600's were the middle black screen version.

    @Eric_C I don't find the comfort on the HD650 too bad, I like the oval ear cups compared to the round of the DT880'S, but the beyers are still that much more comfortable. I like that the cable can be changed on the HD650 vs the DT880's, I mean you can change the Beyer cable, just not easily, and it's a really long cable!
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    None of the Garage hybrid stuff I've heard so far, Ember, Sunrise, resolve as well as or have the liveliness the Schiit (V2 or Vali2). They do have a warmer tuber lusher softer sound which make them work well for stuff like the DT880. I actually prefer the Crack over the Ember for your specific headphones (HD650, DT880). Lyr 2 and Ember are quite similar with Lyr 2 having more slam/attack and Ember being on the gentler/tubier side.

    You might want to try mods on the HD650. I still didn't quite like stock HD650, even with the new versions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
  15. BrettMatthews

    BrettMatthews Friend

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    @purrin So even the Vali 2 would pair well with these? Is there a specific tube that would pair well?That might be a good option for me for a good budget amp!
     
  16. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    For my Vali 2 with HE400S, I nabbed a relatively inexpensive 1965 RCA Siemens tube for $65 off eBay. Nice open wide and clear sound stage and tone.
    Another tube option trying next week is a $30 6CG7 RCA black plate with D-getter. IIRC Mike Moffat likes the 6CG7 model in Vali2 but no clue on his headphone pairing.

    Would not recommend rolling expensive Miniwatt or Telefunken tubes into Vali2, what's the point of a single tube being more expensive than the amp itself ha!?
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You could give it a try. I think you should be able to hear a marginal improvement over the O2 without any of the downsides of the Crack (super high output Z). The vintage Sovtek 6922s are cheap, but their forward (as opposed to laid back) sound matches well with the HD650. The new production Genalex Gold Lion 6922 / E88CC are pretty good sounding on the brightish side that would also go well with HD650. For DT880, the stock 6BZ7 that the Vali 2 comes with works well. Per @jexby, I am not going to recommend that you spend more than a quarter of the cost of the amp on a tube.
     
  18. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    You already have two good headphones. Headphones don't scale that much without going into speaker land. The only problem with recommending a dac + amp setup to you is the DT 880 and HD 650 need different pairings to sound their best. The HD 650 is slightly warm and dark while the DT 880 is clinical and bright as the sun. HD 650 + Schiit M2U stack will sound very good while the DT 880 will sound like the other schiit with them.
     
  19. Sqveak

    Sqveak Friend

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    If that Bifrost is an Uber and has the USB input then it'd be a worthwhile upgrade over the ODAC for your headphones.
    I picked up an Uber last year and consider it to be the single most satisfying DAC in my posession for gaming.

    If you go for the Bisfrost then your O2 would become the weakest component in your system.
    As for amps. Refer to other posts in the thread for what people think works.
     
  20. Mikoss

    Mikoss Friend

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    Brett, if you're near Toronto and would like to hear some other gear, feel free to PM me. I'm in Milton, just west of TO. I can let you hear the GOv2 (and give you a balanced HD-650 cable with a TRRS adapter if you end up going that way...), also some other tube stuff as well.

    Otherwise, CAM is a good resource for used gear elsewhere in Canada. Just watch the prices...

    My thought for the 650's are to mod them and go for the GOv2. Save up for tube gear and don't worry about rolling too much. I have a shit ton of 6DJ8 family tubes and wish I would have just bought the Zana Deux off the bat and not something cheaper plus thousands in tubes. The pinched waists alone costed $700 US... Pure idiocy on my part.

    It's interesting to get different tastes with different tubes, but I found myself constantly rolling with the Woo WA2 (along with a many other owners on HF) and at a certain point I finally just realized that the amp would never gain the resolution I was trying to find. Heard the Eddie Current feeding the 650's and all desire to tube roll was gone.

    Just some thoughts... Feel free to hit me up if you like.
     

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