Lyr 3 Discussion Thread

I would order the TS tube and add the NOS Russian to the order before checkout. Start there, and if he likes one over the other, aftermarket tube choices become more clear.

 

@Elnrik he listens to edm etc so bass is quite is thing any tube that gives great bass but keeps other excepts alive

also reading mixed reviews what dac module to go with the multi bit one or the other?

he wants an all in one

 

I have the MB card in mine. I think the Modi Multibit sounds a bit better, so I use that instead.

I listen to a lot of EDM and metal, and bass is important to me as well. The Lyr3 doesn't disappoint, but some tubes are better than others. Look for the Westinghouse tube @Hands suggested, or the stock TS tube. The Westinghouse is a bit better in the mids, and a touch less energetic up top compared to the TS. Both have good bass.

I'd trust @purr1n's evaluation on the cards.

I'm tempted to ask @schiit if I could trade them the MB card straight up for a 4490 G2 card, as it's kind of a shame I ordered the MB card and it isn't being used at all.

 

Wanted to chime in on the TS 6SN7 vs NOS 6N8S and Low vs High Gain, source is a Gen-5 Bifrost Multibit on HE1000-V2.

There is a definite softness in the higher frequencies with the 6N8S that to me kinda hides the HEK's resolution and overall capabilities. I found myself turning up the volume more trying to find the highs but they just wouldn't stand out on that tube. On the TS it really brings out the clarity and dynamics the HEK's are capable of. I notice right away at lower volumes to where I don't need to crank it up wanting more from vocals and strings.

Now the Lyr3 is juuust powerful enough to drive the HEK's to high levels, but I wish I had a bit more headroom for my own sanity of not introducing noise or distortion. I tend to listen to music at above average volume levels, and at Low-Gain I'm constantly at 75% or over especially with older albums that are typically recorded at lower volume levels. Whereas with LCD2-C's and AFO's I rarely have to go over 60%. It's very interesting how much more power is needed to drive the HEK's.

Given that, I've been going back and forth in High-gain to see if that would take care of it, and while it obviously fixed the need for more power, on either tube it's V-shaping the signature and unbalancing the mids to highs too much for my taste. And it's introducing too much hiss and just doesn't have the smooth clarity as it does in Low-Gain. I know others have had success in High-Gain, so more likely the HEK's signature is just too sensitive for it.

On the 6N8S, even in High-Gain it still doesn't match the clarity and balance in the high frequencies of the 6SN7 in Low-Gain.

So for me with the HEK-V2's, the 6SN7's on Low-Gain is the way to go even though you have to crank up the volume a bit much.

 

Agree that the TS has to be on low gain. High gain completely squashes vocals, and frankly sounds like crap.

Low gain is a whole different story and I'm learning to enjoy it.

(All referring to the AFO. It may be a different story with other headphones)

 

It's been nearly six weeks since I got my Lyr 3. Still enjoying it!
I tried a bunch of headphones I owned or auditioned to see how synergy changes across different combinations.
Here is the results of such "Headphone rolling".

Gear used

• RME ADI-2 DAC
• Lyr 3 (TS 6SN7GTB + High gain)

Headphones are listed in ascending orders of my preference (from the least preferred to the most preferred). Please note that this has nothing (or extremely little) to do with headphone quality. It's more about the interactions and fits with Lyr 3.

-----

Sennheiser HD650/6XX (stock)
: Doesn't sound like shit or crap, but nearly meh imho. Unimpressed at best. Lyr 3 doesn't like polite and laid-back headphones.

Sennheiser HD650/6XX (KISS+Coin)
: Better than stock hd650, but still hd650 tonality doesn't go well with Lyr 3. Resolving ability of this combination is great though. Highly dependent on which recordings to play with. I also tried no front damping, which was beaten by coin mod in the end.

Audioquest Nighthawk (EQed)
: I personally cannot tolerate stock NH regardless of setups. Thus, only listed eqed NH. Like I argued in another thread, NH is very amp-picky. So Lyr 3 is one of rare amps that is quite enjoyable with NH. But the problem is that, from Lyr 3 point of view, NH is not an optimal match. Haziness and tininess of trebles continuously bothered me. Bass control and differentiation are excellent though. Indeed bass to midrange of this combination is top notch among dynamic headphones (nearly planar and estat levels).

Focal Utopia
: Well, it's hard to think people who use Utopia consider Lyr 3 as the amp to match with. But they paired well to my ears, at least technically. Kinda opposite to NH - Utopia benefits Lyr 3, but less so in the opposite direction. While hearing Utopia and Lyr 3 was fun and pleasing, I constantly felt the urgent needs of romanticism (warmth, meat, and lushness). This problem becomes very evident compared to all the parings listed below.

Sennheiser HD600 (stock)
: From here, I can confidently say "they are synergistic". Like already well discussed, hd600 is the brightest and the most forwarding lower trebles among senn 6- family. This nature exactly matches to what Lyr 3 requires. But there is clearly minute mismatched part. Not annoying. But cannot feel this paring is exactly optimal, either. Maybe using different tubes may help. I didn't try tube rolling yet.

Audeze LCD-2 Classic
: Regardless whether revealed or not, LCD2C+Lyr 3 sounds so good. Lyr 3 is weak at bass? No it's not true to myself. Both bass extension and pitch differentiation are stupidly good with this combination (LCD2 is inherently good at this, but Lyr 3 further improves). LCD2C is good enough to tell what Lyr 3 is capable of. Lyr 3 brings LCD2C to the another level. Dare to say that I prefer LCD2C+Lyr3 to sub-optimally amped LCD4. Didn't try but LCD2C Vegan will also work with Lyr 3.

Sennheiser HD600 (with Dekoni fenestrated pads)
: "Dekonized" hd600 (+ front damping removed) is like a souped-up original hd600 with good traits of Audeze cans. Therefore, all the statements of a couple of paragraphs above apply to this combination. Tastefully dark sounding with very good technicalities. Unlike LCD2C, this doesn't need EQs. That's also good.

Focal/MD Elex
: The brightest sounding combination among mentioned (brighter than Utopia and stock HD600). A bit tinny in the midrange, slightly metallic on the top end, and overall artificial. Except these minor problems (to me), this combination beat all the mentioned ones in technicalities, particularly in transient, micro, and macro stuffs. Also refer to my recent posts.

 

Love your review - I agree entirely with this part. When I acquire a new piece of equipment, I usually start with HD580 and HD650K. But then I slowly try to migrate to Utopia, which to my ears is less agreeable to errors in the chain (DAC and amplifier). I am in 100% agreement with you, using the stock tube.

However, just as @Ice-man mentioned, I truly fell in love with this amplifier when I switched to a Ken-Rad. I should add I'm generally in love with the Ken-Rad, also opting to use it in my BA. But the adjustment it made to the Lyr 3 - warmth, meat, and a bit of lushness - was just perfect for my taste and Utopia use. I think I also used low gain, but did not sense a sonic shift due to gain setting.

 

I had my finger on the buy button for the Ken Rad, but I've kind of fallen in love with the stock TS tube. At least as far as it pairs with the AFO.

For $90+ (on a $500 amp) , it falls into "need to audition first" territory.

Especially considering I can't find anything to fault with the setup currently.

 

Dislike this! Your two sentences made me seriously consider tube rolling. Opened ebay, tubedepot, and upscale audio pages to find ken rad just before. Oh well.

Same here. Must resist..

 

Just a heads up, I've been searching for one on ebay and they've got a few for $60+shipping from a vendor in India. I'm trying to negotiate with them on giving me free shipping.

 

I just got a Ken Rad VT-231 from Brent Jessee, Holo Spring KTE 3>Lyr 3>MrSpeakers Ether C Flow. I don't know much about tubes and how long they need to burn in, this tube was on for 3 hours before I first listened. The tracks I'm listening are new to me too, Kenny Barron Quintet's new "Concentric Circles." Very first impressions: compared with well-burned-in stock TS, more spacious highs (cymbals soar), very solid lows, forward but a little rough in the mids (lack of burn-in?) Low gain is more balanced, smoother than high gain. Very engaging, maybe even more than the stock TS even this early on.

 

Just happened to visit HF and found a cool pic of a recent meet:



How cute!

And here is @Torq 's explanation:

 

Sweet suckling baby llamas those cost HOW MUCH per pair? @atomicbob Curious how it affects the Lyr, but at the same time am painfully aware I'll probably never be able to put that information to use )

 

Would this be a good upgrade for a Lyr 2 with Senn HD800S cans? or should I go for the Valhalla 2?

 

Isn't that the Psvane 6SN7-SE limited something for 200$ a pop?

 

The PSVane 6SN7-SE is a guilty pleasure as mentioned here. Single unit price is $200 US.

PSVane 6SN7-UK is nearly the same with a more conventional coke bottle and can be acquired for $60 US via Amazon.

Articulating audible performance is not my forte. Best I can do is give an example. Where a close mic'd trumpet might begin to sound edgy with the TungSol, the PSVane 6SN7-UK takes the edge off, especially with Focal Clear. May not be accurate but sounds more pleasing to me.

The Bottlehead meet was excellent; good to see both old faces and new. Many had fun with my mini giant.

 

5 minutes in with the Lyr 3 loaner [post warm up] and... this is it. This is what was missing with the Elex. It is subtle, but basically is a deflattening of the sound that adds the little bit of depth that was previously holding me back from truly engaging with the music.

Buried somewhere in the stream of conscious notes I have on the Elex, I give an analogy comparing headphones to meat. Basically, most other manufacturers like to pre-season their meat. At first it can be nice... "mmm, what's this? teriyaki, yummy" but after awhile all you taste is the teriyaki. Maybe sometimes you don't want teriyaki.

I felt that the Elex was like a quality cut of meat, but with little to no seasoning. I was really hoping that a quality tube amplifier would act like just a pinch of salt, just enough to bring out the taste of the meat. The Lyr 3 with the Tung Sol tube is that pinch of salt.

I wonder if things would have been different if:
I heard this before putting a deposit on the EC AF and subsequently spent more on tubes and capacitors than the entire cost of the Lyr...
or if the Lyr had been offered in black.

 

Love your analogy. Indeed that reminded me of your posts in AF thread (regarding tertiary winding, jupiter caps, etc..). Your statements here and there are quite consistent. lol

So far to me, Lyr 3 is excellent regarding the sin of omission/commission (no zero sin, but significantly less than all the others), but is probably not designed to add seasoning "artistically". I believe such art is essential in the end-game levels though.