Lyr 3 Discussion Thread

^ Impressions like this are why I value this site's opinions so much. Oftentimes other forums are either pure hype or, well... reddit. Real, useful information about sonic flavor can be lost in the chaos or simply described by people who have no clue what they are talking about (I have definitely been that guy). I've seen a lot that makes Lyr 3 out to be the second coming of Mid-Tier Tube Amp Jesus.

...but still, unable to drop $1.5k on a TOTLOTL amp anytime in the near future amp and with a decent collection of 6SN7 tubes, it's tempting. I also have a pimped-out BH Crack. I am a sucker for amps with dynamics, the more the better, which has made the Mojo 2 the subject of my longing until people started saying the Lyr 3 was better.

 

Keeping this short (this time). If I was starting out, and could afford it, (if you can’t yet please don’t) the Lyr 3 and the ZDT Jr. would be my end game. At this point in time of course.

 

Might I trouble you to share comparative impressions? The two are on a shortlist I'm keeping of amps I'm likely going to buy... next year, when I've the capability to do so. Barring the introduction of any last-minute, dark horse entries, I'm interested in hearing people's opinions of the same (and of the Liquid Platinum, once that starts going around). Not sure where to get them locally, otherwise I'd demo em myself

Grazie!

 

@Lyer25. Let me collect my thoughts this weekend, and I’ll post some comparatives. Although I’ll warn you that it’s been a while since I heard the ZDT Jr. I really should start taking listening notes. But, knowing me, I’d misplace them.

 

Experimenting lyr 3 with hd800 now.

I've never imagined unmodded stock hd800 could be this listenable with lyr 3. A bit shocked, because couldn't tolerate stock hd800 with most of the amps I tried with. Still too bright, but bad brightness (correlated with 5k and 7.5k behaviors) was fairly recessed. Too early to say this, but got a strong feeling that I prefer hd800+lyr3 to hd800S+lesser amps.

Anyway yet not in my "likable" zone. Needs something more to tame for my tastes.

Will test more (including different pads configurations) then update my lyr3 headphone rolling report.

 

Interesting... I never got a chance to put the time in with the HD800s and the Lyr3 since I was loving the Elex combo so much. I will have to give it a listen on Monday before I send the loaner off to its next stop.

 

Headphone rolling report ver 1

Headphone rolling report ver 2.
- Classified into four categories
- Added data points for HD800 and Clear
- Within the same class, no particular orders

----

Class "Don't do that"

• Sennheiser HD650/6XX (both stock and kiss-modded)
• Sennheiser HD800 (+ Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin pads)

Class "Think twice about doing these"

• Focal Utopia
• Audioquest Nighthawk (+eq)

Class "Go for it"

• Audeze LCD2 Classic (both stock and revealed)
• Sennheiser HD600 (stock)
• Focal Clear

Class "No-brainer"

• Sennheiser HD600 (+ Dekoni Fenestrated Sheepskin pads)
• Focal/MD Elex
• Sennheiser HD800 (stock)

----

Here are new entries.
Tested and evaluated with new TS tube, lower negative feedback (=high gain) and RME ADI-2 DAC (with inversed polarity and crossfeed on), so always take my statements with a grain of salt.

1. Focal Clear
: The relationship between Clear and Elex is truly like HD600-650 difference (600:Elex, modded 650:Clear), but less dramatic. Clear+Lyr 3 is much better pairing than 650+Lyr 3. Definitely very enjoyable. They're doing most things just right. But to my ears, the vertical difference between Clear and Elex becomes very close with Lyr 3. In other words, Lyr 3 does its full duties for Clear while it does magic to Elex. I still feel resistance when describing Clear as "super 650", but Clear+Lyr3 is "super 650+Lyr3" regarding sonic tendency. The most natural+neutral sounding setup among listed.

2. Senn HD800 + FNSK
: Let me first begin with Dekoni's fenestrated sheepskin (FNSK) pads for hd800. I hoped these pads just addressed all the hd800 issues, but nope. The effects were even quite different from FNSK+hd600. FNSK transforms hd800 to whole different headphones. Slightly more forwarding but more boring (I didn't mistype this sentence!) with a little leaner bass. 5k issue is completely gone at a cost of sharpness and treble energy. Maybe different amps or tubes may pair greatly with these somewhat effortless and neutral sounds. Unfortunately, lyr 3 magnifies the disadvantages. In addition, this paring particularly bother me in terms of grey (almost white) background and somewhat sibilant 8k behaviors. I will not say FNSK pads are disaster, but never recommend to use Lyr 3 for 800+FNSK.

3. Senn HD800 stock (no mods)
: This is as surprising as #2, because expected the opposite before I tried.. I was a hd800-hater. Thought 800S much better (didn't know various mods other then Anex 1.0) but even 800S were too fatiguing to me. That said, 800 out of the box served for me without any kinds of mods/eqs. Still the brightest among listed, but trebles are mostly tamed only leaving a good stimulus and kick. 800+lyr3 resolves details and dynamics amazingly well. Adds a hint of wetness and air (unique for this pairing, generally not observed with other headphones). Clean and tight bass control is a bonus. Furthermore, 800+lyr3 (+ simple cmoy's crossfeed) reproduced one of the nicest head-stages among I experienced - well-controlled width, very deep stages, proper distance, and accurate-ish layering. Only beaten by Elex+lyr3 in terms of strong center images. Still tonality was a bit north to my liking, but I love this paring so much.. enough to consider to purchase a pair of hd800 for myself. 100% sure that lightly modded (e.g., only SDR) 800 will be fantastic with lyr 3. Not sure with heavily-modded ones though.

ADDED:
TL;DR
Clear+Lyr3 : Great but lacking the last bit of magical synergy
800+FNSK+Lyr3 : Not the sound I wanted from 800
800+Lyr3 : Taught me what stock 800 is capable of with the right amp

 

I'd like to add to this list from my experience with the Lyr3 + RME Dac as well. And also compared with Lyr3 and Bifrost Multibit. The RME DAC and Bifrost Multibit to me were mostly indistinguishable in A/B testing so all my same thoughts apply.

Hifiman HE1000-V2 = Think twice about doing these
Hifiman Edition-X V2 = Go for it
Aeon Flow Open = No Brainer

For the HE1000-V2, at moderate listening levels they sound clear, smooth, and open, with good soundstage and imaging. But the Lyr3 doesn't have enough power to drive these cans to their best. They have very little bass and slam, and you're constantly over 75% on the volume knob for moderate listening levels. No change with different tubes. This was in low-gain, high gain provided plenty of power but ruined everything else to me.

Edition X-V2, plenty of power, bass is biiig, but controlled with very nice depth, soundstage and imaging is very close to HEK-V2. Highs are a bit too overpowering with bright tubes like 6SN7. I preferred the 68NS russian tube with the HEX to smooth over the highs a bit.

Aeon Flow Open, wonderful smooth sound all across the frequency range. Not a world beater in any specific area, but does everything great all around. Slightest problems for me was a bit of rumbling bass instead of fast tight bass. Any tube will be fine, but for me best was 6SN7 to bring a bit more presence in the highs since AFO's tend to be a bit warmer.

I also had the LCD2-C's, but they're already covered above and I feel the same way as Vtory about it.

 

I think a Lyr 3 will likely be my next major audio purchase for the HD800 (Anax+SDR) and Atticus (cocobolo ), as a near-future endgame. I will need to move forward in my career and find a higher paying job before dropping $1k-3k on a tube headamp. I also need to show up to a meet sometime and actually, y'know, HEAR the TOTL amps that are out there. On the short list are Glenn OTL, EC ZDS, Ampsandsound Kenzie Encore, and Bottlehead Mainline.

 

I've borrowed hd800 from my friend IRL last Friday, just to test matching and synergy with lyr 3. Honestly not expected much (heard many times at various places). Yes, I was wrong...

Since then, one week has passed. Returned 800 to the original owner. "My" 800 in the house.
Heck, haven't I been a hd800 hater?



Like these three cans with Lyr 3. Great synergy. Tons of details and technicalities. Really wowed.

 

Any reason to believe that the ZMF Auteur would not be a good match for the Lyr 3? I have read here as well as elsewhere that the Auteur excels on amps that are considered synergistic with the HD6X0, so not very sure how it would do with Lyr 3 specifically.

 

@rott Didn't hear Auteur yet, but measurements and impressions from cskippy/hands/marv commonly indicated that auteur may behave more similarly with focal elex and senn hd800(+s) than hd650 regarding lower to middle trebles - rougher but more exciting than 650. 600 might be closer to auteur than 650, too. My bet is lyr 3 go fairly well with auteur.

 

A question to all Lyr 3 users out there: do you get a background hum with the amp when the volume is cranked up all the way at high gain setting? With my inefficient HE-5/Code-X (sensitivity 87dB/mW), I need to use high gain setting with the volume knob past at least 3 o'clock to get satisfactory volume level of listening. However, doing so also results in background hum, which becomes more evident when I switch to a more efficient headphone.

I thought it might be the tubes, so I replaced the stock Tung-Sol with a couple vintage 6SN7s I had, but the results were the same. It's not coming from my DAC because the hum persists even when the amp is not plugged into anything.

I was expecting the Lyr 3 to be a dead silent amp. Could it be that I received a faulty unit, or is it supposed to be like this? Or do you also hear this background hum (at high gain, volume cranked up, with the amp disconnected to the source)?

 

@songmic Had similar experience. But ridiculously, resolved this issue by changing interconnects. Note that I am not a fan of audiophile-grade cables. All my current cables (3 pairs of interconnects) are super cheap. Noise was slight but evident (with low impedance phones - lcd2c and elex) at the maximum knob position with thinner cables, and disappeared with thicker pair of cable (amazonbasic).

My speculation
1) Lyr 3 is subject to incoming noise (probably due to no CC?)
2) Cable shielding is likely to matter
3) Electricity (not only to Lyr 3 but to other gears) may matter, too

Of course this problem can be further complicated by tube noises ..

Anyway currently dead silent. At least as silent as Jotenheim I previously owned.

 

Changing interconnects? I'm having this noise issue even when the amp is completely disconnected from everything (except for the power cable). Connecting or disconnecting Lyr 3 to the source made no audible difference in the backgroung hum that persisted.

 

Ouch.. then it must be a different issue from mine.. I recommend you check AC power cleanness first, then contact Schiit if not resolved.

 

First, I have no plans to buy a Lyr 3. I could buy one just to compare to my Kenzie and send back for a refund but I don't want to treat Schiit like that as I have too much respect for the company. I am also quite content with my Kenzie. @Hands says about Lyr 3:

While @Vtory thinks:

@EagleWings notes that:

Comparing Lyr 3 to ZDT Jr @EagleWings also says:

With differing opinions like these it would seem you just need to take a leap of faith, buy and try; send back if the amp does not meet your expectations. At least Schiit is gracious with their return policy:

I definitely notice the Lyr 3 is not admired as much as the ZDT Jr. I missed the drop but if one shows up for sale plan to buy; too interesting not to try.

 

I'll check at work tomorrow.

 

I'm getting some hiss the internal dac card past 3 o'clock but nothing on the line in.