Lyr 3 Discussion Thread

Sorry to keep bumping this thread but...

Has anyone else noticed the glow on the JJ tube dimmer on one side than the other?? Its like the very top, one of the sides is glowing bright and the other side you can barley see... It's almost like there is a smaller area where the light is emitting. As far as I can tell the tube is good, all the testing i found it seems to pass but... Just wasn't sure about it. This is my first tube amp so forgive my ignorance.

It gave me an excuse to go ahead and start tube rolling anyway I guess. Looking through this thread some of the old timers seemed to like the PSvane tube so, I just went with it. I like the look of it too.


In the picture, the left is bright but the right as you can see is dim in comparison... Issue?

*EDIT - I got the answer to this question. Seems this is normal and common.

 

I've spent far too much time writing about Lyr 3 while hemming and hawing about keeping it, so I may as well put it down here.

My DAC is Bifrost 2 from PC USB; my headphones are Eikon (Bocote with Lamb Eikon pads) and HD 6XX. The main point of comparison is to Magni 3+, since that's mostly what I've been listening with.

The short of it is that with the stock JJ tube I don't think this is much better than a Magni 3+. It happens to be better in ways I care about with the headphones I use, but it's hardly mindblowing considering the price difference (some of this is the Magni 3+ being a good value to begin with, mind).

With a Psvane UK-6SN7 tube, the amp improves a lot. I think with this the amp is at least as good as I'd expect for the cost - the people who figured out that this would be worth trying were onto something. Kind of a shame it's not available as the stock tube.

More on tubes, headphones, etc:

Spoiler: Stock tube (JJ 6SN7)

With the JJ 6SN7 tube, the Lyr 3 is a better amp than Magni 3+. Its biggest strength is handling tiny shifts in the music more quickly and exactly. Small improvements in lots of other areas - bigger staging, hits harder, slightly more background detail, etc. Clearer overall, more nuanced representation of basically everything. Highs are quite a bit better - those annoyed me on Magni 3+ with the Eikon, but for some reason not here. Maybe a less hazy presentation helps, even when the haze was obscuring something annoying.

However, I think that with this tube specifically, Lyr 3 isn't -that- much better than Magni 3+ (and it took some time for it to be better at all - maybe the tube, maybe the amp itself, who knows). I wouldn't have been able to talk myself into keeping it if its strengths didn't line up with some problems I had from the headphones I use, would've thought it poor value - overall it's not tremendously different. You'd have to really care about what this amp is good at to think it's a worthwhile upgrade.

Spoiler: Psvane UK-6SN7

With the Psvane UK-6SN7, Lyr 3 is significantly improved from the JJ tube. Background detail, clarity, stage size are better; it's also a tiny bit quicker and harder-hitting, and actually feels more dynamic (in a way the JJ tube doesn't vs. the Magni 3+). There aren't many tradeoffs for all this, possibly none depending on how you hear it - maybe less pinpoint imaging (if you even think that's bad), but the whole effect is a better sense of space in recordings. Tonally you get more present highs, but they're not annoying sharp highs.

To me, Lyr 3 with UK-6SN7 is a bigger improvement over Lyr 3 with JJ tube than Lyr 3 with JJ tube is over Magni 3+. Basically, just know that different tubes matter and that there are currently-manufactured tubes out there that seem to work well.

Spoiler: Gain

High Gain vs. Low Gain:

I prefer high gain for this amp - on my headphones there's plenty of room to adjust volume either way, and low gain sounds deader. My initial thought was that on low gain the Lyr 3 is a dead ringer for Magni 3+ high gain. On reflection I suspect the Magni 3+ high gain might actually be better, but not really sure.

With my headphones, there is sometimes noise at idle on high gain. It's not consistent - usually there isn't any. It doesn't seem to increase or decrease with volume adjustment, and it's never noticeable with music playing. Could be cleaner/dirtier power, could be something else (one time switching gain made the noise spike up, so I don't do that now), really not sure. It's not a problem for me, but for some headphones it could be.

Note this is all with the JJ tube. I haven't compared this with the Psvane or heard any noise issues from it yet.

Spoiler: HD 6XX

HD 6XX:

With the JJ tube, this is noticeably off towards a relaxed/subdued sound. The good traits of the Lyr 3 are still in play (particularly, just enough wider staging to not bother me), but that's the complete effect. I don't dislike this sound, but I suspect you may not in fact need to spend 500 dollars on an amp to get this sort of sound from the HD 6XX. And some people would be driven up the wall by how un-harsh the sound is.

I haven't put much time on HD 6XX with the Psvane tube, but so far it sounds less subdued, and noticeably wider/deeper headstage (I think this gets more benefit there than Eikon does). A lot clearer too, really the improvements all seem to translate. It's probably a much better pairing in general.

Spoiler: Eikon

ZMF Eikon:

I think this is very good. Most of my notes apply to this headphone, since it gets most of my listening time, but I'll try to be a bit more specific.

The most annoying trait of this headphone is that the highs are just a bit rougher than I would like on Magni 3+ (the tuning may seem and mostly is laidback, but it's not like that in every respect). The Lyr handles the highs well, but I'm not sure I'd say it's smoothed out since the presentation can be quite a bit gorier. The classic recording engineer fetish of micing vocalists for maximum annoying mouth sound comes through quite clearly, you get quite a bit of feral popstar hissing from those kinds of songs, but somehow that sounds better and doesn't bug me.

One of the best things about the Eikon is the very... forceful/tactile? rendering of some instruments. Acoustic strings usually sound very nice from it to me, say. Maybe someone else with the headphone would understand better than I can explain. Anyway, this was already handled well by Magni 3+, but I'd say Lyr 3 enhances it.

One of the less good traits of the Eikon: it's not a super clear headphone, especially not when there's a lot going on with the music (a vocalist and 4 instruments is fine, entire orchestras can be less so) - things start not being able to cut through, don't hit as hard, etc. It's not like other headphones don't suffer from this, but it's a noticeable trait. Anyway, there's probably only so much other components on the chain can do here, but Lyr 3 mitigates this somewhat (moreso with the Psvane tube).

 

I can say with the time I have spent with the Lyr 3, day in and day out as my only amp for everything, movies, games, music pretty much in that order. When I first got it, it didn't seem to offer much more than my $99 Cavilli Liquid Spark did... However, after using it this entire time I can tell you it completely changed the sound depth. I hate to say it but it really does give it that "3D" effect I am always hearing about but never was able to achieve. I can't tell you how many times I have had to turn down my headphones cause I think the sound I hear it coming from something in the house. That surround sound \ 3d depth it gives to the sound really is amazing. At least to me it is as I haven't had the privilege of hearing high end gear.

I didn't do any A to B testing with the Psvane-UK tube and the JJ that came with it so I am not sure if the other tube offers that same depth but. That is the main thing I can really tell it upgraded from the cheaper amp. Nothing else in the chain was changed. Same DAC. In fact - I bought a ZEN DAC Signature V1 and did not like how it sounded at all vs. the Topping D50S I use... NOT D50 - its a D50S as there is a huge difference. The Zen Dac really sorta muddy things up, it like compressed the sound and lost a lot of that depth. It also didn't have that same preciseness and positioning of the sound the D50S has.

I suppose I just wanted to come drop my long term thoughts.

 

Hi All,

I am looking at potentially using my incoming Lyr 3 as a preamp to my Vidar on my desktop.

Has anyone on this thread done this? Any thoughts on the sound signature that it presents?

I know using a headphone amp as a preamp isn't ideal for speakers but my Rag 2 just doesn't have enough power for my mini-monitors and keeps going into protect mode when listening at loud volumes so I have to change it up and to to back to Vidar.

I am also considering using a Freya S for this duty as then I could use the balanced from my phono pre and us the SE outs on the Freya to my Vidar and then Lyr. I am a little concerned about volume leveling and desk space though with this setup.

My gear will be BF2, Lyr 3, Phono Pre (SE and Bal out options), I have a sys lying around too. Here is what I am considering:

Option 1:
BF2 and Phono to sys to Lyr 3 to Vidar

Option 2:
BF2 and Phono Pre Balanced to Freya S (would need to purchase). Freya S SE Outs to Lyr and To Vidar.

Option 3:
Take one of the RCA cards from Rag 2 and put it into Lyr 3. So then Phono and BF2 SE to Lyr 3 then Pre out to Vidar. This is probably the cleanest of the options.

Any insights or advice are most appreciated.

 

Lyr 3 does a pretty decent job with pre-outs to Vidar. I’ve done this in lieu of using my Freya+, and was not upset with the results. Yes Freya is more transparent and open sounding, but I did not rip the Lyr out immediately thinking it was terrible. It Added a nice bit of the tube flavour from the Lyr as well which I liked with the right tube. I’ve not heard a Freya S to compare so I can’t really comment, but I suspect it would be a similar outcome- yes Freya is bit better, but Lyr was actually pretty decent in my book.

As far as Sys vs the internal RCA card, I suspect it will be pretty similar sounding - SYS is pretty transparent, especially when the volume is up all the way and you’re just using it was a switcher. The biggest impact there is likely to be the extra set of RCA cables and the potential quality of those vs a single set. Theoretically the internal RCA should be better. But go with what works for you (or experiment and see whether one is better).

You could always start with the Lyr and then bring in the Freya later if you felt you needed/wanted it - that would be my recco.

 

Thanks rlow. That is my plan. I am going to get the Lyr 3 today so I am going to give it a go. Hopefully I am good with it. I like the idea of a simplified setup on my desk. I'll report back my findings.

 

With Vali 2 being laid back and Jot being aggressive, does that mean Lyr 3 is somewhere in the middle or leaning one way or another? I like how laid back Vali 2 is. I owned Lyr 3 ages ago so can't 100% recall which direction it leaned.

 

Lyr 3 leans more Vali 2 with improved dynamics and clarity, better technicals across the board. If you like Vali 2 you should like Lyr 3.

 

Hi my fellow audio friends,
I have the Lyr3 with a Sylvania jan chs 6sn7gt VT-231 tube and the hifiman EF400 as a R2R DAC and It sounds absolut fantastic (with the tube and with an R2R DAC as a source).
In a tube forum someone recommended to change the capacitors in the Lyr3 to Mundorf capacitors. Does anybody did this swap? Is it really a upgrade soundwise?