Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid Amp

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Sanlitun

    Sanlitun Acquaintance

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    My Jot has many different personalities that change based on whatever configuration it is in. When running balanced in and out to higher impedance phones (HD800S) it can bear smoothness and indeed it can at times have a little bit of that holographic presence. I've had some goosebumps when listening to Cello and other resonant instruments through it. But as far as treble dynamics go the Jot really honks it out and the high end can get to be overwhelming. There is also just a touch of grain on my unit, enough to never let me forget the equipment I am listening through. Schiit was so close to glory with the Jot. I am never going to impulse buy another one of their products again.

    MCTH doesn't have the same absolute transparency, but it has a fantastic clarity of performance. It gives a really impressive sense of realism and for $250.

    Yeah it's hard for me not to be enamored with MCTH as it is giving me the sound that I had wished so many other products could have managed before.
     
  2. Lasollor

    Lasollor Friend

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    I’m actually shocked how close the MCHT sounds to my Elekit TU-8200, which I dialed to my liking with tube choices. Very similar tonality.
    The MCHT is a little bit more veiled, less dynamic, less instrument separation, a tad smaller sound stage, the bass doesn’t go that deep but overall it’s very close. The difference between the amps immediately noticeable with my modded HD650, but with the LCD2C its much harder to tell. I wonder if the Audeze scales bettery with the Lyr 3.
    It’s a fantastic amp, me too wanted the Jotunheim to sound something like this.
    I’m not sure if it stays, but I’ll recommend it to some of my friends.

    Edit:

    I’ve decided to let this amp go, it’s just not for me.
    My first impression was good, but I suspect it was just new toy syndrome.
    My preference would be kind of Jotunheim bass and forward mids with bigger soundstage and smoother highs and a little sweeter vocals. (and that’s roughly how my elekit tu-8200 sounds)

    My chain was Eitr->Yggdrasil (Analog1)->MCHT->HD650K, HD800SRD, LCD2C.
    All headphones used the phase reversal trick and some sub bass PEQ. I further EQ-d the HD800 with Sonarworks and the LCD2C with the Reveal plugin.

    Out of these I liked the Revealed LCD2C the most with the MCHT, very easy listening, not offending in any way, but the bass could be much better.

    HD650K lost some magic of its vocals, they are too far away for my liking and the bass was too week. I think if you’ve never heard the HD650 with better gear, it sounds good, but once you know how much it can scale, you’ll miss that sound.

    Finally I didn’t like the HD800 with this amp at all. I just got the HD800 and this was the first time I’ve ever heard it and I was very disappointed. Even with the SDR mod and Sonarworks the upper mids were harsh, vocals sounded too distant and yet too dry, bass was only meh. For a moment I regretted buying the HD800. Fortunately with the elekit it exceeds my expectations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  3. Junki

    Junki Facebook Friend

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    I'd like to add the following for posterity:

    I like my MCTH a lot with the HD6XX, so much so that I've decided this is the end-game for me for this headphone's signal chain. To further qualify how much I like this combination: up to this point in time I've always viewed my HD6XX as the bottom performer in any snapshot of my collection's history. I liked my E-MU Teak better, my HE4XX better, my Noble K10 better, my modded M1060 better. Most cans I've owned at various points in time were able to give me an overall more enjoyable experience than the HD6XX. But I decided not to sell my HD6XX because, in the grand scheme of things, it still sounds very good, has very well known sound characteristics, and makes for a useful baseline to evaluate new purchases with.

    With the MCTH, I'm sitting here thinking maybe the MCTH+HD6XX sounds maybe better than anything I've heard with my Sundara. And I think the Sundara sounds better than everything I mentioned above.
     
  4. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Better how?
     
  5. Junki

    Junki Facebook Friend

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    Better as in overall enjoyment. I wrote that when I was in the office. The MCTH gave my HD6XX a larger stage and better separation. Sounds were coming in from all directions. Coupled with the tonality, smoothness, and resolution of the HD6XX, it was a treat. Now I'm home and listening with my Sundara, and I'm again in love. They're both excellent.
     
  6. captkirk

    captkirk Khan's BFF

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    Lol, so a little update...

    The Slants and MTCH suck together. Way to warm; fat and bloated bottom end.

    Bada big, big bada boom! Big boom!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  7. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    How about the Atticus?
     
  8. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    So I finally got the time to rearrange my outlets and hook the LPS up properly... (it was with loosely stripped wires last time and it would cut in and out). Also got my Amperex A-frame 6DJ8 in (orange letters). In short: (all of the following impressions are with LPS)

    1. Stock EH tube: nice, smooth, kinda peaky-ish in the mid treble somewhere but with LPS, the noise floor gets quieter and so sound becomes a bit like... fuller, more impactful. Nice but this exposes the stock tube for how warm it is.

    2. Sylvania: basically like the above but no mid-treble peak. Nice and full, warm sound.

    3. Amperex A-frame: just... better all across the board. Less veil, clearer, cleaner, more bite, more impact, more air, better imaging. If you can find this for cheap, just do it. (do it before MCTH owners start hunting them down and price goes up!)

    Also, quick LPS report: the Acopian A28NT125 I got somehow didn't work (turns on without tube but doesn't turn on at all with tube in). I'm guessing not enough current. Got a A28MT300 in later and it worked right away, no hitch. So if you get an LPS, I'd recommend the extra headroom. Guessing some tubes draw more power than they seem, or something like that.

    Also did a quick LPS vs stock SMPS comparison with Amperex for giggles today, though I've known the improvements for a while: it's cleaner sounding, more impact, more "grunt on the bottom end" as @atomicbob said. Highly recommended if you can afford (and have the knowledge) to go the LPS route.

    Now I'm kinda curious what would happen to the THX AAA or the Liquid Carbon if an LPS was used with them...
     
  9. Br444m

    Br444m New

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    So we’re talking about a +- $300 LPS here, which is more than the amp costs itself. Considering the improvement - would you say it warrants that amount - or would for instance a lyr 3 be a better alternative at that money?

    Here is a $125 chinese LPS that could do the job ([email protected]). This would bring it in the realms of the ZDT junior price wise. Anyone tried it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  10. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    I'm in line to receive one of the Acopian LPS probably next week. So I'll have something to report maybe by the end of the week. If there are real gains to be had when adding the LPS, I can see that it would be worth the cost. If the CTH was more expensive, would that change the way you feel about the cost of the LPS. For me personally, I like the fact that I've got well under $300 including NOS tubes in an amp that performs very well with the headphones that I own. In light of that, I don't mind spending money on an LPS if there are real performance gains to be had.

    Anyway, hopefully I'll have some detailed notes to share later next week.
     
  11. captkirk

    captkirk Khan's BFF

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    Atticus (stock Ori pads) sounds much more controlled with no bass bloat or boom; no crowded mids. Sounds really clean, with a bit more treble emphasis than I'm used to.

    Could be the MCTH just highlights a slight over bass prominence of the Slants, giving it an overly fat bottom end, THICK badonkadonk.

    MCTH > Atticus has got some serious synergy.
     
  12. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Bill, can you post a pic of your connection from the LPS to the MCTH ? Thanks. A pic of the cable used would be very helpful.

    Thanks
     
  13. Junki

    Junki Facebook Friend

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    So, to save some folks some money, here's my take on the LPS question. Plug your headphones of choice into your MCTH. Do you hear noise? Like maybe a bassy hum? Now turn the volume knob all the way to max. When the knob isn't moving, do you hear noise?

    If you answered no to both of those questions, I'll bet my left nut an LPS will not produce any audible difference for you.

    More technically speaking:
    • A/C operates at 60Hz and the noise it contributes to the noise floor is around that frequency. This the point of the first test. Apparently, tube quality varies such that worse variations can also contribute quite considerably to the noise floor, which seems to add noise all around. The tube is on the signal path, so this was the point of the second test. (If you're talking about solid state, like the AAA 789 or the Carbon, this isn't even an issue.)
    • Noise has nothing to do with an active signal, but noise does impact how weak of a signal (as in low of volume) the amplifier can properly amplify (linearity), signal-to-noise ratio, and dynamic range. (Dynamic range is strong and weak active signals, yes, but the weak active signal is mostly limited by the noise floor.)
    • If you look at Atomicbob's revisited MCTH measurements, the noise with the SMPS and a "good" tube lands in at just under -100 dB, which has knock-on effects of SNR coming in better than the officially rated 97 dB and linearity that's pretty flat down to almost -100 dB.
    • You cannot hear anything around -100dB.
    So when should you buy an LPS?
    • If you can hear 90dB below the fundamental (hint, you can't)
    • You have a tube / amp / something that's is resulting in a really high noise level (tests above)
    • A few hundred Benjamines is a sum of money that you feel is worth spending for the peace of mind that your signal chain is as technically perfect as it possibly can be. (Legit reason, but don't pretend it affected the sound unless one of the above.)
    In all other cases, save your money.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  14. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    @Junki Sorry but my real world test do not support your argument. With the Zotl the LPS made a significant improvement. Even my wife could hear it. Better PSU will ALMOST always improve the sonics of the amp. It's not just about noise and blacker background although those are good case in points.

    I don't have any evidence to share with the CTH and adding an LPS, yet. But in my own experience a quality power supply, in most cases, yields a better sounding amp.
     
  15. Junki

    Junki Facebook Friend

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    @Ice-man That could be due to reasons at other parts of the power chain, such as transformers used & replaced by the LPS and where the transforming happens. For example, a functioning SMPS typically operates at around 50 KHz in frequency, but if it's not good quality, that ultrasonic noise can bleed down into the sonic spectrum.
     
  16. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    Quite a bold statement. I think I would rather listen to Atomic Bob’s advice on the matter. You know there are other options besides the Acopian LPS that Bob mentioned. I do agree that spending $300 on an LPS for a $250 amp seems like a lot, but it isn’t your money, so please don’t crap on people that choose to do that. I personally will eventually explore a cheaper LPS just for fun. I upgraded the TC-750 phono pre with a $30 LPS and it made a huge difference sonically. Being a contrarian or naysayer when you haven’t tried it yourself just comes off as ignorant.
     
  17. Junki

    Junki Facebook Friend

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    @Gaspasser I wasn't crapping on anyone. I don't know anything about Bill's specific MCTH, what tube he's rolling, etc. If it was anything like Bob's first measured MCTH, I can easily see how an LPS could help.

    My advice was in general terms, and what you specifically quoted I intended as humor to my otherwise dry, measured diction. While you and others may see the points I made as noise, still others may extract useful signals that help with their decision to buy an LPS.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  18. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Fixed that for you.
     
  19. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    There are certainly diminishing returns on upgrades for an amp like this which include a $300 LPS and some $200+ Telefunken I'm sure someone will justify. Which all together could just get a T3.

    This site is very value-driven and advice will generally be "just get a better amp."

    But people are free to do as they please and having those comparisons with upgrades from willing members may seem foolish to some, but are helpful data points for the community as a whole. Be happy there are people willing to share.

    No one here has said, and I'd wager won't say, you NEED an LPS. That's a big difference between here and HF. People here are willing to admit and be honest about subtle differences regardless of price, not justify their $4,000 tube purchase by saying it's Night and Day different and you need these tubes or you suck.
     
  20. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Me too. They sound better out of Magni 3, at least the bass for sure. If the MCTH could have the bass of Magni 3 and keep everything else, it would be even moar better.
    Here it is for $90. Any idea how to tell if it's any good, short of buying one and testing it?
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/-/32832502096.html
     

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