Massdrop HD58X (revised) Review and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    I just heard a friend's pair briefly out of my MCTH with an RCA 7308. Compared to my HD650Ms, my initial impression is I like the 58X sound sig more. Similar to @Outerspace Wasabi's impressions, more sparkle and bite up top and tighter, deeper, punchier bass. I think part of it is my pads are worn and mushy, exacerbating the mid bass hump. Another factor is brain burn from listening almost exclusively to my new Clears.

    I'm going on vacation but when I get back I'll borrow them for a longer listen and swap the pads to see how much difference that makes.
     
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  2. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Back from vacation and borrowed them again for a longer listen. My initial impression stands for the most part. Comparing with my HD650Ms (essentially KISS modded), bass response is flatter and more extended but dryer. Vocals are more forward and there's more grain in the treble. Microdynamics and detail extraction are slightly inferior and they're less engaging to listen to overall. But for the price they're a nice headphone.

    I swapped the newer pads onto my HD650Ms and both mid-bass hump magnitude and bloominess are reduced down to how I remember them being with new pads. Conversely, putting my old mushy pads onto the HD58X gave them the slight mid-bass hump and wetness/bloom of the HD650s with new pads, but retaining the better extension.

    I took the grill off to check out the driver construction. Interesting that there's no rear foam damping (I think this was mentioned before but I don't remember seeing a photo). The frame of the rear baffle looks more or less the same as the HD650, but the plastic welds don't look very cleanly done and have some gray fuzzy stuff on them. There's also a big scratch on the ring surrounding the driver at 2 o'clock. Guess they had to cut costs somewhere.

    HD58X driver.jpg
     
  3. RiddleyWalker

    RiddleyWalker Friend

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    I put some realllly old worn pads on my HD58X (from an OG 580) and found it to be crucial for my tastes. You lose a bit of sub rumble and soundstage in exchange for a bit of mid bass warmth, smoother treble, and a more “impactful” sound. The end result, FR wise, seems to be a middle ground between stock 650 and stock 58X which works really well with my current gears.
    The Theta Prime IIA brings some healthy subbass rumble and soundstage width and the Sonett 2 brings lively tube holographix which help to offset some of the tradeoffs mentioned above. Sovtek toobz and Cardas headphone cable bring that last modicum of flavor but that’s a discussion for another day.
     
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  4. famish99

    famish99 Friend

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    Surprising, I didn't find that much improvement between the LCX and the Af with the 58x. It doesn't have enough microdynamic ability to take advantage of the tubes.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    ^ This.

    The strength of the HD58X is its frequency response IMO. Not as dull as the stock HD650 can be at times. Not as shrill as the HD600 can be at times. I would like Massdrop to make a 300 ohm "HD58X" (same frequency response) with HD600 / HD650 resolution. Even with mediocre gear, it's not hard to tell the difference, how the HD600 / HD650 just dig in more into the recordings. It's the curse of the HD660's trickle down 150 ohm driver. There is a reason why the HD58X is cheaper than the HD6XX.
     
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  6. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    I would not be able to resist a 300 ohm 58x, no way no how. Most of my amps "overpower" the 58x and I feel stuck around 8-9 o'clock on the dial. It does work pretty well with a good DAP like Sony 1A or qp2r.
     
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  7. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Has anyone published an impedance curve for the HD58X?

    Edit: I assume it's similar to the HD660S, but am curious if there are notable differences just in case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Here's what I'm hearing from my HD58X out of the ZDT Jr and Magni 3. Only focusing on tone right now.

    - ZDT Jr probably has too high of an output impedance for the HD58X. If it's anything like the HD660S, the 100Hz impedance hump almost peaks to the same level as that of the HD650, which, in theory, should cause a relatively more pronounced emphasis in that area with higher OI amps compared to the HD650. All the thoughts below are from Magni 3...with ZDT Jr, it's like everything below, but exaggerated.

    - HD58X is noticeably more relaxed in upper-midrange and treble than HD650, save for a bit more of a relative bite around 5KHz. That is, the 5KHz or so bite isn't technically as high as on the HD650, but stands out more relative to the mids and treble on the HD58X.

    - I can hear why some people would call the HD650 veiled. Though, newer production models seem a little more neutral in this regard. But the HD58X is like putting a blanket over the HD650.

    - Bass sounds less extended to me on HD58X and overall murkier, looser, woolier, though isn't quite as mid-bass heavy as HD650. At best, it's on the same quality level as HD650, but generally I find it to be somewhere in between what I heard on the HD598 (heard a friend's pair recently) and HD650.

    - HD650 sounds more dynamic, snappier, and more lively from top to bottom. It sounds much more awake to me, especially in the upper registers.

    - While HD58X has less of a mid-bass emphasis than HD650, because it's also noticeably more relaxed sounding than the HD650 in the mids and treble, the HD650 comes across as sounding noticeably more neutral.

    I should have clarified that by HD650, I was listening to the HD6XX. It too is a relatively new pair with fresh pads. The newer line HD650s remind me more of an HD600, but with less aggressive upper-mids, whereas the older pair HD650s are a little fuller and darker sounding, but also have better dynamics...but still more or less applicable to everything I said above.

    I still plan on keeping it around for gaming, backup listening, wife use, etc. I might crack it open and try some mods. Clearly plenty of potential here, as is true with all Senns.
     
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  9. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I'll take measurements of both later today...
     
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  10. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Posting HD58X and HD6XX measurements for comparison. Both are stock, relatively new, and have fresh pads.

    I checked this a few times and kept getting very similar frequency response measurements. The 58X sounds pretty muted in the upper-mids and treble to me. The channels sound very closely matched, so I don't think there's anything wrong with them. I'll probably mod these more to my tastes (less front foam, add some stuff behind driver, etc. Easy.)

    HD58X vs HD6XX Left Channel FR.png

    HD58X seems like it might have more immediate resonance around 5KHz, but otherwise is possibly slightly cleaner than the HD6XX.

    HD58X Left CSD.PNG
    HD58X Left CSD at -45dB.PNG
    HD6XX Left CSD.PNG
    HD6XX Left CSD at -45dB.PNG

    Distortion results, with the 1KHz sine at 90dB, look fairly close. Similar D2 below 100Hz. HD6XX seems to more quickly hit low distortion in the midrange and is a hair lower/cleaner overall. HD6XX may have marginally less D3 below 100Hz. But the HD58X might have less D3/D4 in the midrange, which would be impressive.

    It's tough to say. They're pretty close, and this is a really basic mic. Could be environmental noise causing differences even. 100dB results would be telling, but the mic usually shits the bed when fed that high of a signal.

    HD58X Left Distortion.png
    HD6XX Left Distortion.png
     
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  11. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    HD58X impedance
    Looks like Senn shifted the Fs down a bit to 75Hz, probably to get better bass extension from the initial prototype.
    HD58X impedance.png

    HD660S Impedance
    Fs near 100Hz.
    HD660S impedance.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  12. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

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    I wonder how long one can push that... How deep and sub-bassy can one make an open headphone like this?

    Also, is that the phase response above it?

     
  13. J.I.T

    J.I.T Rando

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    I got my hd58x 3days ago, quite neutral and I didn't feel about boosted bass area.
    against my modded ether flow, less bass amount and more near vocal.

    so I measured with minidsp ears.
    it also shows something different compare to the 58x measurements on SBAF and others also.
    not same as 58x pre, also not a 58x revised from sbaf measure.

    maybe is there a lot deviation while manufacturing process or defect?

    I don't have SBAF calibration. so I just measure with HEQ/HPN cal.
    here are my measurements.

    HEQ
    [​IMG]

    HPN
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Ox Cart

    Ox Cart Rando

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    I'm fairly convinced treble grain is because of that 5K resonance. I used to EQ it down which improved smoothness. However, I just applied the latest version of the felt mod described here with the 3.5mm hole and the grain is gone, no EQ necessary. According to the measurements the mod damps that resonance. Sadly it loses some of the warmth in the lower mids but I can EQ that back in. Pretty fantastic!
     
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  15. blank001

    blank001 Rando

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    These links don't appear to work for me. Can you repost them? Very curious as I've heard rumors of silent updates on the 58x.
     
  16. J.I.T

    J.I.T Rando

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  17. blank001

    blank001 Rando

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    These don't look out of line for other 6x0 HEQ/HPN plots. They have a nice flat transition in the lower treble region which is unlike the hd600/650 who have more presence there, but otherwise, they look very similar (6k dip and all).

    Is there another HEQ/HPN plot of the 58x you're thinking of?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
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  18. J.I.T

    J.I.T Rando

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    I want to compare my own 58x and 6xx, so I ordered 6xx and got today.

    here is measurement comparing graph of 6xx vs 58x.
    volume match with 1khz 84dB base with HPN cal.
    miniDSP ears, RME adi-2 pro fs.
    yellow one is hd6xx, other one is my used 58x.(58x is measured again today also)
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    (same image but bigger : https://drive.google.com/file/d/15cfT5axPF0u7Tv_0cZ1tPoF7LFT47fkd/view?usp=sharing )

    58x had 60hrs play time and pads were slightly worn already.
    but differences by worn are not in bass region, mostly in 1~4k / 8~15k from measurement.
    so under 600hz down to 20hz, my 58x still has same character as before.
    yes, only 2dB difference. but I still think this is deviation of 58x.

    58x serial No. 023025.
    6xx serial No. 085714.

    //add one more image.
    I've found I forgot to save new measurement graph.
    so here is simple & ugly overlapped image with hd58x first measurement, 31th Dec, 2018.(red one in image)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
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  19. riker1384

    riker1384 Acquaintance

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    Which is which? Those images are too low in resolution for me to read the labels.
     
  20. Sonorus

    Sonorus Facebook Friend

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    Have you read carefully the above message?
    It clearly states that HD6xx is the yellow.
     

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