Massdrop x Eddie Current ZDT Jr. (Official Thread)

Thanks @JoshMorr
Now I want mine! Is it June yet?

 

I have been slowly (and a bit prematurely) preparing for the delivery of my ZDT jr. and wanted to buy the GE driver tubes recommended heavily in this thread. However, it looks like there isn't a proper identification of it apart from "GE driver tube" anywhere in this thread (well I might have missed it but I did my best and skimmed through all of it).

Maybe I just overlooked it or there is something else I am missing but may I ask for specification of the GE driver tubes?

 

It's the GE JAN 5654W tube

 

Yeah, I saw the "JAN 5654W" designation on some photo in this thread but expected "GE" to be part of the name. Thank you.

 

Sorry for the delay in my impressions. Work, writers block and mostly my difficulty in describing amps. I can’t add much to what @captkirk, @JoshMorr and others have said. This is a very good amp for the HD800 and the HD600. It definitely has that EC house sound. The bass is rolled, but not too much for my tastes. The transformers with tubes have a really impressive sound, especially, as has been said before, in the lower mids and up. What stood out for me was the quality of female vocals. I heard more of the singers vocal chords and throat. I could also hear more decay in everything. The recording space was evident. Using acoustic tracks from the White Album, the guitars had more of the timbre of a live guitar than a lot of other amps I have heard. I also heard a difference in mic types. On the White Album I was able to tell the difference between tracks recorded on the 4 track machine and the newly installed 8 track. I even checked a reference book to make sure it wasn’t in my mind. I only missed once. Can’t remember which track now. I need to start taking notes.

I sometimes use some tracks from The Chieftans-Tears of Stone album to check out how well an amp matches the timbre of a live instrument. Drums, piano and violins all sounded very close to the real deal. The Joni Mitchell track The Magdalene Laundries is great for checking instrument placement. There is a bell that should sound back in the mix in the right channel. The ZDT nailed it. Joni’s smokey voice really is present and clear. On the Diana Krall track Danny Boy you should hear her tongue click against her soft pallet on the word “bide”. Again nailed it.

But what I began to notice particularly with the HD800’s was the difference in recording equipment. My Living Stereo recordings sounded like they were recorded in the 1950’s. Not in a bad way, but I noticed it more than on other amps. 60’s recordings showed the changes in technology and so forth as I listened to newer and newer recordings. This amp really made it difficult to listen critically. I kept getting pulled it the music. As to planers. I borrowed a friend’s modded Monoprice M1060 (the loaner). The ZDT Jr. had no problems driving theses cans. Quality of sound was excellent. My friend liked the sound so much he plans on getting the amp as his next upgrade from the Magni 3.

I think this amp will be a nice complement to the BW I already own. It does vocals and acoustic instruments just a touch better than the BW. I know. Heresy. But that’s how I heard it. And best of all, it passed The Beatles Test with flying colors. The ZDT was my choice for their music over the Black Widow. It just seemed to give the music the sound I remember from my parents tubed Magnavox console back in the 60’s. I am really looking forward to this amp when it arrives. Very glad I got in on the drop. Excellent value. Great design. And it does run remarkably cool. But warm enough to keep your cat happy sitting next to it.

Note. I didn’t have the stock front tubes, only the GE Jan 5654’s.

 

Standard stream of consciousness impressions on my part. I'm an hour into listening to it.

• Note to self: $400
• I came into listening to this with expectations. A relatively inexpensive Eddie Current sound is what I'm expecting. EDIT: I actually lost interest in this amp/thread so my expectations were set from roughly the first page. I didn't see any real criticisms of the amp before writing this up.
• I'll refrain from comparing it to the Cavalli Liquid Crimson apart from the LC tainting my impressions of everything going forward.
• Using Audeze LCD2 Classics and Sennheiser HD650s (modded and with phase reversal trick)
• More equivalent is something like the Garage1217 Project Sunrise III/Horizon III with the atomicbob Noise Nuke, which I will be comparing it to directly.
• Soundstage is bad. It's slightly wider than it is deep, but the depth is abysmal.
• Bass is crap. Sub-bass is nearly non-existent.
• I prefer the integrated amplification from the RME ADI-2 DAC w/ the Audeze LCD2C
• I vastly prefer the Project Sunrise III with the atomicbob Noise Nuke, and still prefer it with the stock SMPS.
• Bloomy (that clears up some with power on time)
• Micro stuff is not great
• Layering and separation are okay despite the mediocre soundstage
• Soundstage:
  • ~6 inches in front of me
  • ~3 inches up
  • A few inches panned left/right
  • This headstage is about as bad as I've heard. Everything about it is a bit wonky
  • Also it's quite blobby. It's like you get two blobs left and right and one forward and up with emptiness in-between
• It's pretty quiet. That is appreciated. Not hearing any buzz/hum going on with it
• Substantially improves when warmed up, but it's still unimpressive
• Much better pairing with the HD650 with PRT than the LCD2C. The Audeze is going back to its stand for the rest of listening. ZDT Jr. simply doesn't sound right with it. It's just as well. The bass is mediocre enough that I'm not going to listen to anything bass heavy anyway.
• Overall timbre is pretty good, but I'm not getting any crispness to the pluck of guitar strings. It doesn't dig in with bowed strings. Drums are not satisfying at all.
• It's not overly wet or overly dry or overly anything. Sounds like a tube amp.
• Female vocals with jazz... pretty good. If that's your thing, I actually might recommend this thing as long as you can tolerate the blobby soundstage.
• Nothing offensive about it overall, really. My thoughts are exaggerated based on my expectations, but tonal response is somewhat cohesive. Nothing nasty anywhere.
• Boring
• Not very dynamic
• An hour into listening to this and I'm ready to pack it up and ship it to the next person. Really unengaged and I feel like I'm wasting my time listening to it.
• Don't know why my impressions are so wildly different from everything that I've read so far.
• Before people claim this unit is broken, nothing sounds broken on it. It's very quiet, the tubes aren't hissing or microphonic, it's fully warmed up at this point, it's being fed with clean power, etc.
• It's possible that I'd rather have this than a Schiit Vali 2, but honestly that's questionable so I'd take the Vali 2 at less than half the price.
• I'd rather have the Garage1217 Project Sunrise III or Horizon III than this for sure. With or without LPSU/nuke.
• Honestly, I'd rather just use the integrated amp on the ADI-2 DAC for the HD650s as well. Shrug.
• Sorry I don't like this? It must not synergize well with my gear.
• It's not as glaringly bad as my comments make it seem. It does nothing genuinely wrong, but it does nothing particularly right either. It doesn't have enough coloration of its own to make it attractive for its character, and it's not neutral enough to serve as a decent reference tube amp. It's quiet, doesn't run hot, doesn't take up much space, is solidly built, isn't terribly expensive, isn't inexpensive.
• "Meh."

ZDT Jr. Headstage*:

* Bald spot and facial features included because I was so bored listening to the amp that I needed to entertain myself.

 

@Luckbad. Having an idea of what you like, I’m not surprised you found it meh. I didn’t mention soundstage because I don’t really focus on it much. I tend to hear blobs on most gear. For me, speakers have soundstage, headphones have headstage for me. I should have added that bassheads should look elsewhere. Did you use me as inspiration for your drawing?

 

The illustration is a perfect likeness of me, but I have more white hair than that in my beard.

 

I wasn't a huge fan with the HD650 either. I just wasn't as put off by the staging as you. I've just been writing it off to shitty stock tubes with my experience....

 

It has GE tubes in the front.

 

Continued...

• EDIT: I actually lost interest in this amp/thread so my expectations were set from roughly the first page. I didn't see any real criticisms of the amp before writing this up. Now that I go back, it looks like others have similar impressions.
  
• I've left it powered on for a good while now (coming up on 12 hours). Things do improve some, but nothing earth shattering.
• Knowing a lot of amps (especially tube amps) seem to like the volume pot at 12 o'clock or even higher, I knocked it up a bit above that point and reduced the input volume to it to compensate.
• Still not great. A bit boring, bloomy, and without any sense of balls or attack.
• Then I decided to use the ADI-2 DAC's versatility to try to make myself like the amp.
• The main issue I have with the ZDT Jr. is lack of extension at the extremes. I tweaked the Loudness and turned it on to get ~5dB boost in the sub-bass and upper range of the treble.
• That certainly improves things. I overcompensated a bit because I knew I was about to do the next thing.
• Next issue to tackle: Terrible soundstage. I kicked in Crossfeed (level 2, which is the Jan Meier setting) and that helped a fair amount.
• Finally, the bloom. I usually use the ADI-2 DAC with the NOS or SD Slow filter. I tweaked around a bit but quickly settled on SD Sharp. It lifts the warmth further and enhances the attack.
• I went a little too far with the treble. Should've changed filters first. I reduced the Loudness and used the Bass and Treble knobs as the main EQ points instead. Bass +6, Treble +1 w/ stock frequency response cutoffs and Q. Loudness now at +5dB bass, +2dB treble ~10dB below where I'm at on volume right now.
• Most of the issues have now been solved. It's suddenly a reasonably capable amp without any major flaws.
• Now that it's not giving me too much warmth, I can hear that it has decently good resolution and it's not as slow as I was perceiving it to be originally.
• Timbre and guitar pluck have improved as well.
• If you want an amp that is good to go without any adjustments whatsoever, you're going to need really solid system synergy.
• If you're willing to dedicate some time to ironing some of its weaknesses in your setup, the ZDT Jr. is a decent deal.
• I'd still personally take a Sunrise or Horizon with LPSU or atomicbob Noise Nuke over this. They're a little cleaner, crisper, have better bass and treble extension, and sound less bloomy (tube dependent).
• With these tweaks, it's probably superior to the Schiit Vali 2.
• And I do like its overall build and aesthetics.
• Glad I gave it the benefit of the doubt and decided to figure out how to force myself to enjoy the amp. I usually don't think people like Hands are crazy (and in fact generally agree with his hearing more than almost anyone's), but I thought one of us must be on something earlier today.

 

I think this confirms what I heard at RMAF. Given its price point and everything you had to do to get it to sound good, I'd be looking for a different amp instead of pairing it with a $1K DAC to fix the problems.

It's interesting to see the polarizing reviews. Are they all from the exact same amp? (I'm wondering if production variations are causing the differences in opinions.)

 

I wonder if this amp is super sensitive to stuff like power source. I thought my AF was a veiled and congested piece of trash until I plugged it in directly into the wall.

It made me a believer in such things...

 

I am really puzzled by all the conflicting reviews as well. So far, Ive gathered that:

1) SBAFers seem to agree on how naturally the amp presents mids and treble region, timbre and subtle details are enjoyable. The overall sound signature gravitates towards warmth (bloominess) but not excessively so. It is also well understood that bass depth is not perfect.

2) People have conflicting opinions on bass quality (tightness, detail, (in)sufficient depth) as well as on soundstaging along with sense of airiness (reports seem to be all over the place here).

Honestly, bass quality as well as soundstaging can make or break an amp in my experience - especially when both these factors are great/lacking at the same time. It is therefore rather difficult for me to actually deduct whether I would like the amp, or not. Probably for others too as it seems.

 

I second @Magnetostatic_Tubephile 's thought in that the overall picture painted here is very conflicting in a way a $400 tube amp can't be. I'd be much happier if a couple of folks in both side of the aisle had access to both amps to confirm that their subjective impressions are valid irrespective of production variances ( to the extent possible with just two samples ).

 

Patience is a good trait I’m learning at SBAF. Hopefully, I will hear the loaner this week. Basically the differences seem to boil down to GE driver tubes, HD800 synergy and most importantly, personal preferences. I think that the HD650 on this amp is also causing divisions. I suspect that if you liked HD650 on Valhalla 2, you may like ZDT Jr. I will edit this after hearing the amp with 650/800.

 

I also wonder about use of mains filtering. Sometimes, less is more- but infuriatingly, if you have noisy power, sometimes more is more, too. It can make things sound wonky.