Massdrop x Eddie Current ZDT Jr. (Official Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Hands, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    Which planars? CTH is working very well with efficient planars. ZDT jr is essentially a dedicated amp for high impedance dynamics.
     
  2. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

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    I would recommend either; HD6XX is definitely cheaper but if you can swing HD800SDR used (look at the nice deal Changeling is running for his in the FS), I thought it was a better pairing for ZDT Jr. Although, HD650 is the only headphone I’ve kept long term.
     
  3. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    HE500 and Alpha Dogs.
     
  4. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    Shipping from Sweden to US adds quite a bit.
    I'm really leaning towards the HD6XX for now.
     
  5. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    I ended up selling some gear in the last couple days, so I ordered a pair of open box HD800's last night.
    I'll be ready for my Jr when it ships :D
     
  6. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    Did we ever get both units in the same location at the same time to compare? IIRC, I think they were going to either @Hands or @atomicbob.
     
  7. Lenroot77

    Lenroot77 Friend

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    Has there been any speculation whether there will be more drops in the future?
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Why did randy get banned?
     
  9. captkirk

    captkirk Khan's BFF

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  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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  11. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Yeah, I have both at my place now. Already compared one to my own and will share any thoughts once I compare the third to my own.
     
  12. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    Great! Looking forward to what you find, one way or the other.
     
  13. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    My forte is measurements. My ability to articulate auditory nuances is not developed to the levels attained by @purr1n @Torq @Hands and the rest of the usual SBAF suspects.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  14. dumbo

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    I hope our EC ZDT Jrs make it through before the US and Russia get too pissed off at each other. Supposed to ship sometime around June 26th.
     
  15. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I've been rather delayed getting around to amp tests. Still waiting to test amp #3. But I figured I might as well share comparison thoughts between my ZDT Jr and loaner unit #2, S/N 7. (See loaner thread to figure out which one that was and if you heard it.)

    Loaner #2 has the stock Russian tubes in the rear and some mid-80s, green label GEs in the front. I tried to match my unit as best as possibly by using my own Russian tubes in the rear and my green label GEs in the front. The main difference is my GEs have a production date from the mid-70s.

    After sufficient warmup time, I think I heard some differences, but note that they were close enough to be placebo. What that means is these were minor differences.

    - Loaner unit was a bit more mid-bassy, had a bit less low-end extension. Sounded a bit dirtier in low end.
    - Loaner unit was a bit more forward and aggressive, less staging and air.
    - Loaner unit was a bit grainier and rougher, less nuanced sounding overall. Just a bit less pleasant overall.

    So, I put the tubes in my unit into the loaner unit, and vice versa, and went through the same tests.

    At that point, my thoughts were more or less reversed.

    Conclusion? Tubes matter. I've heard NOS tubes sound different even though internal parts and build look identical, for whatever reason, even when factoring in burn-in time. Production runs seem to matter. It seems you can even get variances from the same production runs, or at least tubes ranging from "good" to "bad." Any other variances due to the amps themselves would exhibit traits even less noticeable than tubes and probably not audible. Now, who would have thought that?

    So, yeah, the differences so far came down to differences you'd expect just tube rolling your own amp, and we all know that enters some weird territory.

    Also confirmed anyone that heard loaner unit #2 and didn't hear at least 80% of what I heard is deaf. If they did, but just didn't like it, that's just because of incorrect personal tastes.
     
  16. EagleWings

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    Hey guys, I just wanted to chime-in real quick about ZDT Jr and HD800S pairing. I received the Massdrop x EC ZDT Jr loaner unit yesterday, and have been using my HD800S, and have been comparing it to my Lyr 3 (TS 6SN7). As a noob to desktop amps, things I read on SBAF are now starting to make sense, such as; 1) power is not the only aspect required to uncover HD800's hidden potential, 2) why some of the amps that are recommended for the 800 have a High Z port or setting

    TL;DR: For the HD800, the High Z port on the ZDT is the way to go. ZDT has better macro dynamics and stage depth compared to the Lyr. Overall, ZDT might be the better amp for the HD800 than the Lyr 3.

    - Coming from portable audio, Lyr made me hear sub-bass on my HD800S for the first time. ZDT goes a step further and makes you feel the sub-bass. ZDT also punches harder and deeper, displaying excellent authority. But Lyr might have the slight advantage in bass control, cleanliness and transitions.

    - One other aspect about the Lyr 3, I was critical was the soundstage. It wasn't that it was closed in or intimate. But it seems to fall short in its depth and is a touch forward sounding. ZDT gets both those aspects quite right with better depth and a more neutral placement of the presentation.

    The reason I wanted to make this post is, if a HD800/S is all you own, and are about to pull the trigger on a Lyr 3, may be it would be wise to hold off on the purchase, until some members who have tested both amps (ZDT Jr and Lyr) could add their $0.02. I know it is not possible to order a new ZDT Jr anymore. But may be there are other amps in the price range, that would work better for the HD800/S, than the Lyr 3.
     
  17. EagleWings

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    After testing the ZDT Jr (Loaner #2, with GE tubes) for 5 days, here are some impressions. Actually nothing substantially more or new to add than, what I already posted above.

    Please Note: The unit I tested was, the one which had the GE tubes in the front. I am not sure, how the stock tubes sound, but if it doesn't sound good, I'd happily get the GE tubes that Marv put on his unit and call it a day.

    With the HD800S:

    - For HD800S, I would pick the Jr over the Lyr3 anyday. The Jr basically fits in like a Tetris block, to fill in the negative gaps of the HD800 and evens out the unevenness for the most part.

    - High Z port is the way to go for the HD800. The high Z port has a more expansive presentation and better macro and bass dynamics. It was the first time I heard HD800 slam and rumble like a beast. Going from High Z port to the Low Z port, makes you feel like the presentation is compressed. The only advantage of the Low Z port is, it presents cleaner bass transitions and textures.

    - Between Lyr 3 and Jr on High Z, Lyr 3 presents a cleaner mid-range and also has better resolution. Despite the difference in resolution and a fuller body that the Jr presents, its separation and layering is still on the same level as the Lyr 3.

    - The treble linearity is quite similar on both. I couldn't perceive much difference there. But take my treble comparison with a grain of salt, as I use a bit of EQ to smooth out 800's glare in the treble.

    - The soundstage on both are very good. Lyr 3 has better width and height, but the Jr creates better depth, that creates a more convincing 3D stage. The additional depth also helps with the layering.

    - Sometimes, very rarely, I hear some grain on the Jr. I am NOT referring to grain in treble. More like distortion or noise type of grain. Lyr 3, from what I have tested so far, is free of those grains.

    With the Audeze LCD-i4:

    - The choice between Lyr 3 and Jr for the i4 is a bit difficult. Each amp does certain aspects better than the other, that it would be a close call. But because my other headphone is a HD800, I'd probably pick the Jr. But if the i4 was all I had, I'd be unsure, and ultimately, I'd probably go with the Lyr 3.

    - The i4 when connected to the Low Z port, sounds not too far off from the Lyr 3. So between Jr Low Z vs Lyr 3, I'd definitely go with the Lyr 3. Lyr 3 has better resolution and is more expansive (or sounds less compressed).

    - The high Z port is a little tricky though. Due to the reduction in damping, i4's bass gains a little bloom, that helps improve the perceived bass power. But I am not sure if the high Z would be ideal for a full-size planar, as the bass on those phones are already quite authoritative. Also, the bass lines and texture on the high Z is not the cleanest. Depending on my music, mood and needs, I would switch between the Low or High Z ports.

    - In all other regards, what I wrote in the HD800S section on top, applies here as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  18. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    Thanks @Hands for your impressions on Loaner #2 aka The West Coast Unit. Interesting about the tubes, but that is tube rolling at it’s finest.

    I heard 89.456% of what you heard. Whatever you heard. Still think this is very good amp for the HD800. If you have never heard a pure tube/transformer amp before, it might sound different at first to you. Or not.

    Looking forward to #3. Um...not THAT #3.
     
  19. songmic

    songmic Gear cycler East Asia edition

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    Has the ZDT Jr's output impedance (for both low and high Z outputs) been measured or documented? All I see on the official product page is that low Z is recommended for 32-100 ohms, while high Z is recommended for 100-600 ohms, but I don't see an exact figure for output Z. I read somewhere that NBM's output impedance is 28 and 62 ohms for low and high Z outputs respectively (not sure if this is a reliable source, however), but I'm not sure if ZDT Jr. has the same output impedance.
     
  20. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Did I forget to post about what I heard from loaner unit 3? I think I did...hope I'm not going crazy.

    More or less same thing as unit 2. Only main difference was tubes when all other variables were ruled out.

    Though I should point out my own unit has noticeably better channel matching on the pot at low to medium volumes than the other two units. It's still not perfect, but channel imbalances can contribute to weird findings depending on listening levels, I've found. An imbalance can really screw up the sound in ways you wouldn't expect.
     

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