Massdrop x Eddie Current ZDT Jr. (Official Thread)

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Hands, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    @gixxerwimp What songs are you using, and at what section/moment/timestamp, specifically to determine bass performance? What's the bass shaker test?

    Is this always with the HD650 and Clear, or do you have other headphones you use with it that are factoring into how you perceive the amp?

    What source are you using, including any PCs (and software config), CD players, streamers, etc., DACs, pre-amps...anything feeding the amp? I want to rule out it's not some sort of weird low pass filter sort of deal going on if your source has undersized output caps.

    Have you tried different output tubes at all, or only driver tubes? When I made those couple guesses in my last post, I was being holistic in terms of tubes.

    How would you describe the channel balance on your ZDT Jr? Is it at all kind of off at low or even moderate volumes? Some of the other units I tested surprised me by how much pot imbalances could affect perception at low to moderate listening levels. I'd have to dial it in just right and at louder levels to maximize sound quality. It's a downside you risk with cheaper pots. And most people I've found listen quite a bit quieter than I do.

    What amps do you have on hand currently, assuming all other variables are the same, that don't have this issue?

    You wouldn't necessarily be wrong in that I place less emphasis on bass performance than some other areas. I think the most important parts of music are in the mids and treble. Nonetheless, it plays more into my tastes than I think most would assume given what I've written and how I write. But it's generally just bland to think, write, or talk about, unless it's something like the Mjolnir 2 that hits you upside the head. It's nice to have, but I think it's a more...entry level (?) aspect to focus on so much.

    That said, I've had a lot of equipment come and go. ZDT Jr has never really lacked extension or impact relative to anything else.
     
  2. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    I listen to varied genres, some being bass focused, and I’ve probably been considered a slam-head at times. Even so my experience has been the same as yours. The bass lacks definition and it doesn’t quite slam like the Mjolnir 2. But there really is no lack of it, especially out of the Hi-Z. It has been a long running inconsistency amongst members. At this point I don’t think it’s simply down to differences in auditory perception or individual preferences.

    With regard to the Utopia it has been a much better match than the Mjolnir 2 in that I have since removed the circular front foams as its presention is a sufficient counter-weight to Utopia’s unpleasant timbre. The Hi-Z can be a bit much at times though and the presentation is still thicker than I would like. It isn’t perfect and it’s my first tube amp, but the presentation, and performance in the finer areas, are so far ahead that I won’t be going back to hybrids.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  3. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    *These aren't part of my regular listening repertoire, but I use them to test for bass extension.

    Test Tones:
    The lack of oomph is very obvious with Heart Beat Tracks 30Hz and 20Hz. When the test tones go really low, it also sounds like you almost hear more D2 and D3 than the fundamental.

    Those are my only two full size cans right now. I've tried modded FD01 and EX1000 out of the NBM, consistent with my perceptions. Andros as well but too much hiss even with iEMatch.

    I've laid out my chain fairly often in my posts. It's also in my profile.
    • Pi Zero W (pCP) > Eitr > Modi Multibit > SYS

    As I understand it (source @Zampotech), the power tubes would account for about 20% of the "tube character" of the amp and the driver tubes 80%. My spare set of stock power tubes were poorly matched and I dropped one of the original pair, but matched one of the spares to the remaining original by ear.

    Channel balance is excellent past 8 o'clock. I use the SYS for attenuation and keep the NBM pot around 1 o'clock, using it for fine adjustments only (same with the MCTH).

    • MCTH (TFK E88CC, bass slightly rolled off compared to stock EH)
    • Magni 3 (punchier, deeper bass than MCTH)
    My comparisons are with the MCTH. If NBM had the MCTH's bass, I would have no issues whatsoever.

    My impressions about mids and treble are more about what I hear wrong on a fairly course level, as my listening abilities are admittedly more "entry level", if that's how you want to put it. I really like everything the NBM (ZDT Jr) is doing from mid-bass on up. If there's nothing wrong with it I won't talk about it so much. Bass quality is perhaps easier to criticize as it's simpler to describe. And while it's important to me, I'm definitely NOT ...
     
  4. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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  5. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    Looks like some childish revenge-disliking after @gixxerwimp disliked one of @elmoe posts.
     
  6. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Happened to me as well.

    Carry on.
     
  7. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    Let's get it right, you two seem to have some hardon for me:

    [​IMG]

    I'm just disliking shit posts.
     
  8. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Take it to PM with me if you need to cry and "dislike" for the sake of being disliked.
     
  9. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    Uh, seems to me you're the one calling me out in this unrelated thread, and then complaining about me disliking your posts as if I'm on some "dislike revenge streak". Do feel free to PM me though, if you feel the need to, and stop shitposting in this thread.
     
  10. LetMeBeFrank

    LetMeBeFrank Won't tell anyone my name is actually Francis

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    6 posts from the same dude right after he happened to dislike one of your posts? C'mon man don't pretend it's anything other than what it is.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    You're pretty invested in this huh? Yeah the guy above has been on me for a couple of weeks now so I checked out a couple of threads he's active in and it turns out he's shit posting a fair bit. Got disliked in kind.

    msommers can PM me if he wants to know why his were.

    As for you, not sure what your beef is, but here's a few dislikes for crapping all over this thread. ;)
     
  12. Zampotech

    Zampotech Friend

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    Friends, watch a funny movie, smile and do not hold each other evil

     
  13. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    @gixxerwimp Thanks for all those answers! I'll see if I can replicate since I have a Magni 3 I can use same as you.

    I assume taking the Sys out of the equation doesn't change things? Just to rule out weird interactions and all that...
     
  14. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Cool, @Hands. I can't see how the SYS would affect things other than where you end up having the volume pot on the amp. With the combination of the high levels of modern masters and my preferred listening levels, I usually have the SYS around 9 o'clock (above 8 o'clock is good for channel balance on my unit) and both MCTH and NBM around 1 o'clock. Without SYS I'd be diddling around near the "wake up for work" o'clocks trying to get past channel imbalance.

    FYI I have SYS output direct to NBM and then pass through to MCTH. Before I got NBM I used these Audioquest adapters to split the SYS output to Magni 3 and MCTH. No weird interactions encountered with either of these setups. Comparisons were done both with only one amp on at a time and both turned on. Only one headphone was connected to one of the amps at any given time.

    Just to be absolutely sure, I will try Modi Multibit output direct to NBM (w/ and w/o SYS) and nothing passed through when I get home tonight. However, I'm pretty sure I've done some listening with MCTH not connected to the pass throughs and not noticed any difference.

    Magni 3 is with a friend (and possibly up for sale) so I can't do any more comparisons, but the differences with NBM/ZDTjr would only be more magnified. I thought I'd keep the Magni for EDM and other sub-bass intensive content that the MCTH didn't quite perform so well on, but the treble is a bit too grainy/hashy for me so I weaned myself off and am now satisfied with the bass from MCTH, even with the E88CC that doesn't have the impact of the stock EH but does have much smoother upper mids and treble.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  15. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    @gixxerwimp I feel for you, being tempted into a listening chain bake off with @Hands where he expects you to hear the same bass performance (slam, tightness, warm goo) as he does.
    rest assured the reading public here does NOT expect your experiences to match his in any way, both your viewpoints add valid constructive detail to this thread.
     
  16. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    ROFLMFAO ... yeah, I spent a couple of hours last night collating all that data for my reply. Lumping me in with all those "entry level" fiers who go on and on about bass gave me a bit of butt hurt, so I had to state my case :p

    @Zampotech thoroughly tested my unit so the chances of it being an outlier are slim to none. I have some Raytheons inbound to see if they can provide some marginal gains to the low end.
     
  17. Zampotech

    Zampotech Friend

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    Probably there was a need to measure the amplifier more objectively
    Here you can download the software generator.
    Listen to the sound of the chain "amplifier-headphones" at a different frequency.
     
  18. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Thanks, @Zampotech. I've used various test tones and "measured" with my ears. My setup doesn't allow me to easily output from a PC to the amp.

    I don't think what I'm hearing is out of line with measurements posted here and what many others have heard. I guess what could be happening at the very low frequencies is that the measured response is flat, but the amp isn't able to control the drivers well enough, resulting in an apparent roll off in bass response. Using the Heart Beat test I mentioned (Chesky test discs), 40Hz is ok, 30Hz not so good, and 20Hz pretty bad, all compared to MCTH. But as I said, I love what this amp does from mid-bass on up.
     
  19. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    Sorry to butt in, but I have to ask why you are running passthru to the MCTH? Why not feed both the NBM and MCTH directly from the sys? (I feed both a Mogwai SE and MCTH thru a Sys)

    -------Edit---------
    mods... maybe the dislike button needs turned off for awhile?
     
  20. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    SYS is designed to switch between 2 inputs and a single output. Running it backwards makes things sound weird, unless you run it at full volume when the pot is completely bypassed. I'm basically using it as a passive pre and not a switch.

    Feeding both amps from the SYS would require using the RCA adapter I mentioned.
     

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