Massdrop x Focal Elex Review and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Guess I know which Focal I'm aiming for, should I ever seek to own one, haha. Thanks for the impressions!

    Incidentally, never heard anyone call the Eikon or Auteurs metallic sounding. Of course, I've yet to get ears on either (still need to meet with that one guy I heard owns an Auteur and compare with my HP-3), but considering they utilise biodyna drivers, I'm surprised. Would you be referring to the "tizzy" treble these diaphragms often have?
     
  2. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    I don't think I would have had that impression had I not heard them back-to-back in comparison. To me the zmf headphones sounded distinctly harder in the treble region. It may just be their particular tuning, but the result ends up being the same for me
     
  3. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I'll happily continue this conversation via PM since it's greatly interesting to me, and also, I fear this thread's getting derailed (sorry!). Quick reply tinged with audiophile pretensions down below though :p

    That said, I've only ever tried the AQ Nighthawks and HP-3s aside from Foster's model 443742 variants (specifically the TH900/610/X00), and then only two of the above at length with familiar gear and music at home, so I don't think I have a great understanding of the nature of biodyna drivers save for that they have better low end than most similarly-priced peers, resolve in a way that I personally find pleasing (not sure if it's timbre or not), and, unfortunately, tend to be harsh in higher frequencies— I've learned to live with the latter, though I concede that the same is the primary reason I'm looking at mid-tier tube amps to tide me over until I can afford a "big boy tube amp" instead of just saving up for one straight up.

    Anyway, I think the reason for my confusion was one of differing terminologies, haha. I don't so much consider the treble on these as "metallic" or "hard" as I do it "sizzly", and think the Elear, Z1R, and DT880 more fitting of the description.

    ... Eh, it's not as if there's any particular standard lexicon for describing sound in the hobby, especially when it comes to this level of hair splitting. Haha, I get where you're coming from, though, and apologise for my misunderstanding :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  4. tomchr

    tomchr MOT - Neurochrome

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    Six hours and 35 pairs of headphones left on the drop. Just saying... :)

    Tom
     
  5. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Tempting ... partly for an all-up Elear, Elex, Clear, Utopia back-to-back comparison. And partly to see if I like Elex w/o any adjustments vs. Elear w/ True-Fi (I don't like the Elear without either True-Fi or some kind of EQ).

    Not sure I'll ever get to such a write-up ... but still tempting.
     
  6. JonCharles

    JonCharles Friend

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    For those who have the Elex and Sonarworks, try using the Focal Clear Professional correction. I tried it for fun, and I think that it actually is a huge improvement. Haven't personally run into any driver excursion issues either.
     
  7. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    I've done a bit more tinkering with rear damping on the Elex (my attempted SDR mod was a bust) and am glad to have found something that helps tame the 6kHz peak which is my only real gripe with these headphones.

    My inspiration for this was the rear foam disks of the HD6xx, and specifically the role they played in taming treble (if you've ever compared a HD650 before and after spider cage removal then you'll know what a significant role the rear damping plays). I was curious what kind of effect rear damping could have on the Elex, and in this case the results were just what I was hoping for.

    I had some spare HD6xx front foam disks which had previously been cut down to fit the inside radius of the Elex/Clear pads for use as front damping (I found front damping to be more of a blanket, wide-band solution that deadens the entire upper frequency range without targeting any specific frequencies; not what I was looking for):

    [​IMG]

    The enclosure of the Elear/Elex/Clear features an open cavity behind the driver, not unlike the HD6xx but a much larger radius. Since my foam disks were cut to fit inside the tabs that hold the Elex's pads in place, and since the location of those tabs correspond with the internal screws of the Elex, once I opened the housing up I found the disks fit perfectly between the columns at the rear of the earcup:

    [​IMG]

    The result is probably more akin to the rear damping of the new HD-58X, but without covering the entire surface of the earcups (this would involve more precisely cut foam disks to work around the 6 internal screws in the frame, which I don't have time for at the moment).

    So, how does it sound? The first thing I did after reassembly was queue up a track that was especially bothersome to me on the Elex, where the S's were perfectly mastered to drive the 6kHz daggers into my brain ("Feel.Love.Thinking.Of." by Faunts). Happily, I found the 6kHz peak to be reduced (by a good 3-4 dB would be my guess), down from nearly painful range to entirely tolerable.

    Also fortunately, the rest of the Elex's signature seems for the most part unaffected. There is a few mm of clearance between the earcups and the rear of the driver housing, so a single disk doesn't entirely seal over the driver cavity, so air behind the driver is still able to escape freely.

    At some point I would like to experiment with additional layers of foam (I believe the rear HD6xx foam has 3 layers) to see if I can further reduce the 6kHz peak. Also, given the HD6xx rear foam's second purpose of dampening the bass, I suspect that additional layers (which would seal the gap between the rear enclosure and earcup) would have a noticeable affect on bass. A good affect? We shall see. The thought of further improving the bass of this headphone is an exciting one though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  8. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    Seems like I am just hogging this thread now, but whatever... I discovered something fun today.

    My Project Horizon III just returned back from warranty service for a noisy channel (side note: Jeremy was awesome to deal with. When he says 5 year, transferrable warranty on his amps he really means it.) Previously, the Elex was too noisy on this amp to be considered useable for me, which I attributed to the Elex's relatively low impedance of 80 ohms, and the PH III's intended use with 120-600 ohm cans. Turns out, I just had a defective amp; not only does the PH III drive the Elex quietly, it does so very well.

    The first thing to hit me when I plugged the Elex in was the bass. Oh, dat bass (mid bass, specifically). The Elex's bottom end was filled in by the PH III in a way I haven't heard it before, and in a way that I really enjoy. I'm not talking about slow, bloated midbass either – it's as tight and controlled as before, just much more present. Taking the Elex back to the MCTH, the mid bass just goes poof. Maybe it's more neutral on the MCTH, but now all I hear is the midrange and treble with a touch of bass (admittedly the MCTH does sound more balanced on certain tracks that are overly mid-bassy to begin with, but for the rest the PH III easily wins).

    Secondly (and this is probably either psychoacoustic or my imagination), I swear I am hearing more details with the PH III than the MCTH, despite the heavier bass and warmer, more laid-back presentation. My suspicion is that I seem to be able to listen to the Elex at higher levels out of the PH III, whereas upper mids and treble could quickly become overwhelming on the MCTH if I turned it up.

    My hunch was that this major change in bass presence had to do with the impedance curve of the Elex. I wasn't able to find impedance measurements for the Elex, but Tyll's measurements of the Clear and Elear's impedance curves would certainly explain what I'm hearing. Both the Clear and Elear show pretty much constant impedance from 200hz on up, but at 40-50Hz they spike suddenly up to 325 ohms(!) I'm not an electrical engineer (maybe @atomicbob can shed some light on this) but given the Elex's driver being a close cousin of the Clear and Elear, it would appear to me that it takes a considerable amount of power for the Elex's mid bass to fully wake up, hence my experience with the PH III.

    The sad/funny part of the story is that I've had my Elex listed for sale for a few weeks now, and withdrew the MCTH from sale. Now it looks like I'm going to be withdrawing the Elex and offering the MCTH back up. Oh bother.

    (Note: both my MCTH and PH III are powered by an Acopian LPS)

    EDIT: After some further reading it appears I was only partially correct: the bump in mid bass is due to the Elex's impedance curve; but is the result of high output impedence settings on the PH III, not the amplifier's power.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  9. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    What OI setting are you using on the PHIII? Of the 1.5, 35 & 120 Ohm choices, the latter two would certainly boost the bass of the Elex if their impedance curve is anything like the Clear/Elear.
     
  10. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    Both the 35 and 120 ohm settings work well (the Elex is a bit too sensitive for the 1.5 ohm setting, it gets loud in a hurry). So the effect of high output impedence is dependent on the impedence curve of the headphones? I know that low OI is supposed to be ideal, but I haven't yet learned why (and it's especially puzzling when I prefer higher OI in this case)

    Edit: disregard my basic questions, I found an excellent explanation by Jan Meier on amplifier output impedence that taught me a lot: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
  11. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Yep, voltage divider. If I've done the sums right, with a c. 325 Ohm (bass) vs c. 80 Ohm (mids & highs) headphone impedance profile, bass cf. rest will be boosted c. 2dB at the 35 Ohm setting and c. 5 dB at the 120 Ohm setting of the PHIII vs what you'd hear on the MCTH with its < 1 Ohm OI.
     
  12. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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  13. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    So these are supposed to be pretty much the same as the Clear pads, just with not as nice material, right? Maybe I'll grab a pair as spares for my newly acquired Clears.
     
  14. westermac

    westermac Friend

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    Officially, they're the same as the Clear pads, just a different color fabric. Unofficially, I've owned both and the fabric of the Clear pads felt a bit thicker and higher quality. Elex pads are close enough though, and much less likely to look like a dirty sock in a few years.
     
  15. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Just got them in. They're a little over 2mm thinner than my Clear pads The foam is much softer as well. Fabric is thinner as @westermac said, smoother too. I think they just skimped on thickness and density of foam. The dimensions of the fabric cut seem to be the same.

    I find the Clear pads to be a bit rough and itchy on my smooth complexion, so the Elex fabric is actually an improvement for me. The reduced overall pad thickness reduces the clamp to the degree that they felt loose on my head. I had to go from 6 to 5 clicks out on each side to get them to feel stable. Treble seems a smidge smoother so that's another bonus for me. I'll post more SQ related impressions in the Clear thread.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
  16. nickwin

    nickwin Acquaintance

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    Any current or previous HE500 owners willing to comment how these compare? Im one of the few people still using (and loving) my He500s, but Im feeling some upgraditus and Im wondering if these are good enough to up justify an upgrade if Im happy with what I have.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    They are very different. The HE500s are full sounding, some say speaker-like with a sparkle in the highs. Depending on what you are running from, HE500s might be lush or sluggish or muddied. But it's all about the feel, the big feel. Transients and detail are good enough, but not the last word. Those belong to the HE-5, HE-6, which require modifications to not have nasty etchy treble from hell.

    The Elex (Elear with Clear pads) is light, fast, and lean. By lean, I do not mean wimpy. Think Floyd Mayweather. He will keep his distance, but you still don't want to get hit hard by him. Elex has brighter tilt overall. Maybe a small treble spike around spot as HE500. Clarity and articulation are significantly better on Elex; but if you love the tone of HE500, this will be a big change.
     
  18. nickwin

    nickwin Acquaintance

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    Excellent comparison, thanks! Thats really helpful. Your description of HE500 agrees with my own just about 100%.

    Based on this Im thinking maybe the Elex would be a good complement to, but not replacement for the HE500s. My wallet disagrees, but I think at this point Ive gotten to attached to the HE500s and spent to much time fine tuning my system for them to ever get rid of them.

    What are some popular amp choices for Elex? Right now I have Lyr 1 + Modi Multibit. Its a ideal match for the HE500s but hasn't wowed me with other HPs. I doubt it would ideal for an efficient "clarity and articulation" type HP like the Elex?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  19. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    You didn't specify a budget, but I'd consider upgrading your Lyr 1 to a Lyr 3. See discussion here:
    Disclaimer: I have heard neither the Elex nor the Lyr 3.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  20. Aklegal

    Aklegal Friend

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    I was about to repurchase a Senn HD 600 but I think I am going to pick up a used pair of the Elex instead. Currently I use the HD650M about 65% of the time, the TR-X00 PH about 25% of the time and the K7XX the rest. I like the latter two headphones but I almost find myself sighing with relief whenever I switch back to the HD650 after a long listen with either of them. The 650s refinement is really hard for me to give up for too long.
     

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