Massdrop x HIFIMAN HE4XX Measurements and Impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    10,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philippines, The
    @Outerspace Wasabi Been curious about the 4XX for a while now, how's the staging fare out of your HP-V1? The Fostex is my first hybrid amp so I'm not sure how much of what I love about it is attributable to the amp itself or to its hybrid nature, but if it's any good a pairing I might try my luck at trawling the used market for a pair I can lug around to places that don't mind open backs.
     
  2. Outerspace Wasabi

    Outerspace Wasabi Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Falkland Islands
    The HE4XX opened my eyes to just how extraordinary the HP-V1 can be.

    I have to analyze the staging a bit more… but I’m finicky when it comes to imaging.. and this union more than satisfies in that regard. There is a holographic effect.. a layering to the music. Depending on the genre of music, I hear the individual sources of sound like points of light in darkness and detect the spaces in between.

    And the bass is also very present, I must add. In audio reviews, detail retrieval is often assigned to the highs, but a pairing like this also shows us that there are details in the lows.

    The treble peaks that some have mentioned in this thread must’ve been tamed by the HP-V1 because I don’t hear them.

    It makes me hesitant about getting replacement pads — This might be a sonic reproduction I don't want to tamper with.

    You might be able to find the HE-4XX in the used market; I think a lot of people won’t discover their potential.

    They’re also still available on Massdrop, in case you didn't know.. but time is running out.
     
  3. redrich2000

    redrich2000 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    If anyone is looking for pads, I found these ones from eBay in China that come with the mounting disks. I bought some ESP950 pads from them and the quality is good.
     
  4. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    10,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philippines, The
    Same case with my X00 EBs, there's a teensy bit of sibilance that stabs me on certain recordings on other systems. It's still there, but much more tolerable out of the V1 amp. Probably gonna keep this around indefinitely since I really like the sound profile and how it plays well with low-impedance cans, just worried about the 6N16B-Q mini tube burning out. Wonder how the other 6N16B types are different from the Q variant?

    Anyway, glad to hear that they pair well! I'll be buying used since I know a few people local have the 4XXs— I'm usually a cheap bastard and buy used when I can, lol.

    Thanks for the impressions!
     
  5. Outerspace Wasabi

    Outerspace Wasabi Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Likes Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Falkland Islands
    You know, I'm concerned about this, too. Maybe we should stock up on 6N16B-Q mini tubes. I think Aliexpress sells them.
     
  6. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    10,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philippines, The
    Veering off topic, so maybe move discussion to another (new) thread if anything else re: HP-V1 comes up, but I did some looking into this a few months ago and no place I saw had the -Q variant in stock back then. Glad to see Aliexpress has new (?) stock, might be worth hoarding like half a dozen or so just in case. I do wonder what the other 6N16B types bring to the table, though. Probably nothing too crazy.
     
  7. HockeyFan12

    HockeyFan12 New

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    This is a poorly articulated question, but what is it that makes these sound a little "plasticky?" Sort of like the newer Stax Lambdas. Whatever the opposite of "lush" is. I'm assuming the recessed mids?

    Overall I'm really impressed, the sound out of bad sources (2016 rMBP, iPhone X) is great for the price, although I can't get quite enough volume.
     
  8. abisai2

    abisai2 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2017
    Likes Received:
    302
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Riverview, FL
    I made the same pad swap and couldn't agree more! The original pads for me were really itchy. The Ori's are WAY comfortable. I forget they're on that's how comfortable. The 4XX has replaced the 400i I was using with my desktop setup.
     
  9. conquerator2

    conquerator2 New

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Czechia, Europe
    Thanks for the impressions! I've also been rolling pads today and pretty much came to the same conclusion as you. I tried some Audeze angled pads as well as the Brainwavz angled hybrids and came to the same conclusion that the (comfort wise inferior) Hifiman pleaether pads nail it.
    Would you be able to try some of the other pads you mentioned? I am really curios about the standard Focus pads so if you could do these I'd be very grateful! Thanks!
     
  10. Beau Cauchemar

    Beau Cauchemar New

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Naples, FL
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Spent quite a bit of time pad rolling and comparing the non-perforated Ori to the perforated Ori last night (both with the foam insert mod) using the same set of tracks at the same volume to see which was truly superior. In stock form with a couple of hours playtime, they sounded good, but not great pretty much across the board, which is why I got modding immediately. It's worth noting, as I outlined in a previous thread, that these 4XXs also have the grill mod using paper tray mesh and no dust screen along with having over 170 hours worth of play time. They also are using a custom silver-plated 22-gauge OFC cable from Amplifier Surgery. Equipment used in this comparison: straight from my XDP-100R playing the first few tracks from Steve Turre's Woody's Delight (mainly for balance, imaging, sibilance testing) and various tracks from Tame Impala's Currents (mainly for balance and soundstage testing).

    Updated Ratings after Ori pad comparison:

    4XX (non-perforated Ori + grill mod + foam pad mod): treble 0 / mids -1 / lows +1 / soundstage -1.5 / imaging -1 / detail -1
    4XX (perforated Ori + grill mod + foam pad mod): treble +0.25 / mids 0 / lows 0 / soundstage -0.5 / imaging 0 / detail -0.5

    I started this comparison because I started feeling as though the perforated pads introduced a touch more treble tipping it into the warning zone for near-harshness. After the comparison though I came to the realization that the recording and volume must have influenced this thinking, as switching back to the non-perforated pads (neutral-dark) they exhibited an almost indistinguishable difference in harshness (which is to say very minimal, again depending on the recording.) The highest brass notes on Woody's Delight inspired only a single wince or two and when it happened it felt appropriate for the recording's intent and intensity.

    In this back and forth though I did notice that the non-perforated pads seemed a bit congested which I hadn't noticed without comparing and switching over to the perforated pads the sound opened up with more air/space and better imaging. Jazz recordings can get busy sounding and the perforated pads handled this with ease. The swirling synths on Current's showed the perforated pads to have improved the soundstage to very satisfying levels.

    Since I felt that bass was too anemic without the foam pad mod (and previously the hair roller mod), but also slightly too prominent with the foam pad mod and the non-perforated Ori, I was happy to realize that the perforated pads tamed the bass ever so slightly so that a perfect Goldilocks amount of bass tightness/impact/detail/amount was achieved. The juicy distorted synth groove on the tail end of Tame Impala's Let It Happen sent a chill down my body and the upright bass on Woody's Delight had just enough heft and body to seem very real. To briefly explain, the foam (pads or rollers) was used to distance the driver farther from the ears which made a noticeable increase in all things bass and are fit in the ring pocket between the Ori's foam and mounting ring. For a frame of reference, my bass port modded Q701s seem to be putting out a similar bass amount (although slightly more body not being as neutral) with the 4XX+Perforated Ori+foam pad mod pulling ahead of the Q701's low end in terms of response, detail, impact, and sub bass.

    In going back and forth I also realized just how much more I prefer the modded 4XX over my previously loved Q701s. The soundstage on the AKGs by comparison now makes them seem almost unnatural and odd while the perforated pads and grill mod brought the 4XX to a natural, pleasing soundstage somewhere between the Elear and HD800. Imaging is also quite good and I can easily tell where instruments are in the space. In terms of neutrality, I feel as though the perforated pads improved even further on the non-perforated Ori and am now able to easily focus on whatever instrument I want in the mix without it getting lost or overshadowed. Superb balance indeed. It's worth mentioning that since my previous cans were the Q701, your mileage may vary in terms of treble on this series of 4XX mods although I should say that it is less strident and smoother than the AKGs while never feeling even slightly veiled or losing detail/microdetail.


    If you can't tell already, I am loving the 4XXs with this combo of mods and feel as though this might be it for new cans for a while given my high level of satisfaction at this point. Even off of the DAP I was getting goosebumps at the sheer amount of pleasure and technical prowess these things were putting out. There was also a bit of disbelief given how relatively cheap these things were even with the mods ($325 total). So if you have the 4XXs, do yourself a favor and make the same changes. I'm sure you'll be quite impressed as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  11. spoony

    spoony Spooky

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    651
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Nice analysis, however, be mindful of the other color scheme of this forum:

    Screen Shot 2018-01-11 at 12.23.14 PM.png
     
  12. redrich2000

    redrich2000 Facebook Friend

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    134
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    A quick stupid question... when using thick angle pads, the thick part goes to the back right?
    Also F*ck whoever devised this pad fitting system.

    I bought these pads from eBay the quality is pretty nice and they're almost identical size to the Ori pads. They come with the hifiman fitting ring, so if you don't already those spare and/or don't won't to cannibalise the stock pads, these are slightly cheaper. The lip that folds over the fitting ring is too long making them a pain to fit and postage took forever.

    I've also got the drawer liner under them and removed the dust filters (stock grills), via Roon, Topping D30 and Lyr 2. Listening to my treble test track now, it's a DSD of Thriller, which is super-hot in the treble. The treble is still a bit hotter in the 4XX, especially compared to the 650. But they are much better than stock.

    I reckon for me these are about equal to the modded 650. The 650 has that incredible lush smoothness, these have more air and deeper bass.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  13. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    10,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philippines, The
    Yup, so the drivers are angled to hit your ears from the front.
     
  14. chrolls

    chrolls New

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    United States
    Great write-up! I love the internet! No way I would of bought these pads on my own, not knowing what effect they'd have.

    Would you be able to detail how the center image (or lack thereof) was addressed with all the mods you did? I realize you said the imaging and soundstage improved, but wasn't sure if that included this. Also, I sometimes find the mids to be a bit too recessed for my tastes, am I to assume the "0" rating means the mids are more balanced? Thx in advance, I really appreciate it!
     
  15. chrolls

    chrolls New

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    United States
    Also, just another quick aside. If simply extending the pads farther away improves the bass, does it stand to reason that simply moving the pads away less with less material than you originally added would avoid the amount of bass you felt was uncomfortable with the original non-perforated pads? I mostly ask because I already ordered those particular pads! Thx again!
     
  16. PTS

    PTS Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Edit: Bill P answered question via PM, so no need to take up space here with photos.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  17. Arun Kumar

    Arun Kumar Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2017
    Likes Received:
    208
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Bangalore, India
    These look like the focus pads-A. Focus pads have tiny holes on the inside.
     
  18. Kejar31

    Kejar31 Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Champaign, IL
    I picked some aftermarket HE-4XX's up with the zmf pads... Went ahead and swapped out the grilles with some a made... I actually really like these headphones.. Prefer them over the HD6XX's for music like NIN, Depeche Mode and Talking Heads... Although for most anything else I will reach to my HD6XX's.
     
  19. zhouharvey

    zhouharvey PayPal’s $2 Sensible Enforcer

    Banned
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Well, perforations work better than stock Focus pads. I settled down using perforations for a while.

    The perforated ones work the best, interestingly, on another pair of headphones. I just bought a second pair of this good earpads.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Jerda

    Jerda New

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Nazareth
    @Marvey hey! I'm about to get a replacement pair and i just had an idea!
    Should I sell the 4XX replacement while still not opened and buy an he560? :D
     

Share This Page