Massdrop x HIFIMAN HE4XX Measurements and Impressions

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I bet those upper mids make it more like an HD600. I guess I just gotta fight you on every detail, @Bill-P. :) Dear lord, I just hope it's not like the HE560...
     
  2. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    We gotta fight! It's been so quiet and peaceful lately! Hahahaha!

    I'm actually just secretly pushing you to get one of these... knowing your sensitivities. And I'm hoping you'll post mods and stuffs, too. You seem like the perfect person to "fix" these.

    Seriously, the last time I've seen a HiFiMAN with decent measurements was like... Code-X. This is almost like a lite version of it from measurements, which to me means something must have been done right.

    Not sure how much of it is @CEE TEE's godly ears and persuasion skills, but man, it's tempting!
     
  3. ohhgourami

    ohhgourami Friend

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    Good to know I'll never run out of chassis for my headphones.

    In other thoughts, I could probably put my spin of mods on this.
     
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  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    400i, 400S w/ Focus pads (A?), and 4XX, from Marv, and scaled to match between all three. Ignore distortion. Matched around 100Hz.

    Green = 400i
    White = 400S w/ Focus pads of some kind
    Yellow = 4XX

    400i 400s focus pads 4xx.png

    Now, obviously, whatever the 4XX is, it's not a carbon copy of an existing HFM headphone. Some thing(s) had to have been tweaked. But I think the 4XX FR has just a wee bit more similarities to the 400i. Just use your imagination. Couple that with the matched impedance and sensitivity as well as more similar looking distortion (400S looks cleaner than both, and 400i/4XX are not entirely the same but more similar to each other than vs 400S), my bets are this is some tweaked variant of the 400i. Or related to it somehow.

    Or, since a lot of the HFM headphones have similar measurement traits, it's possible it's just coincidence the paper specs match the 400i. But why settle and get some sleep when I could make wild guesses that are ultimately pointless anyway?

    Now, this will be a mess to follow, but you have:

    Green = 400i
    Purple = 400S stock
    Yellow = 4XX
    Blue = HE560 (which I swear should have a similar 8-9KHZ peak and is way too hot in the lower treble)

    mess.png
     
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  5. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Thanks for the comparisons, Hands! :D

    Yeah, just as I expected. HE-4XX really doesn't look like anything else before. But indeed closer to HE-400i. I stand corrected. It may in fact be an HE-400i, but then that still doesn't how they were able to get everything >500Hz to slope down like that. It can't be the Focus Pads A because I also tried them on HE-400i and didn't get that response. They must have done something to the magnets and/or distance from ears to diaphragms.

    And agreed HE-560 should have more 8KHz than that. Measurement artifact, maybe? HE-560 sounded to me more like a sharper HE-400i. For me, it needed some extensive mods to bring bass up and reduce the treble peak. HE-400i was "okay" for the most part except for the mountain at 8KHz. Orthos with treble mountains have typically sounded worse to me than dynamics with the same peaks.
     
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  6. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Maybe the pads actually have a toilet paper damper built in to cover the driver. :D
     
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  7. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Funny you mention that. HE4XX does sort of remind me of a Code-X lite. In some ways, the bass is actually less murky (assuming modest amplification). The Code-X / HE-5 / HE-6 are more resolving of fine details though. The HE4XX is much more laid back than the HE400i (strident) or HE560 (shrill or edgy). Code-X is still more laid back in upper mids compared to HE4XX.
     
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  8. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    IMG_20170801_221604.jpg

    The pads have an open fabric and there is also a fine net sheath over the driver. I'm sure you know the Massdrop guys are serious into tweaking their special X versions of stuff. And you know I don't have a problem telling @CEE TEE if something is shit. In fact, he wants to me tell him if it's shit.
     
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  9. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Yeah, the Massdrop guys really do put a lot of work into their versions of products. :)

    Sad there is no hidden toilet paper, though.
     
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  10. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    I would love to see alternate Focus pads measurements. Actually stock old school Velour pads could be good too.

    To much mid-fi for me otherwise these would be on my radar.
     
  11. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    That fabric thing is too thin to have the same effect as toilet paper, tho... or at least that's what I think.

    @Marvey do you have shelf-liner handy? This type specifically:
    [​IMG]

    ^ that seemed to tame HE-560 to me, so maybe it'll do well with HE-4XX as well. Not that I'm seeing much to fix in FR, that is. Could be worth a try either way.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Not enough time. I should send them to you or pick them up from me at work (Sherman Oaks).
     
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  13. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    I'd love to see Hands' take on them, actually. They look like they might be up his alley.

    The above were just suggestions in case something goes wrong but from your impressions, I'm guessing you don't have much issue with them. (and given the measurements, I can see why!)
     
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  14. jayeshrc

    jayeshrc Resident Crash Test Dummy

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    I moved away from headphones because I had nice speakers and IEMs but I've been wanting to get a pair of open backs lately because I stay up late writing my thesis report and have an overly sensitive neighbour. I was going to spring on the HD6XX/650, but these seem like they are a good option as well.

    I know the senns scale with equipment and all, but I dont intend to buy more expensive headphone amps in the future - I want to head further down the speaker route. So considering this, what points do i have to consider to choose between this and the 6XX/650?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
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  15. The Alchemist

    The Alchemist MOT: Schiit - Here to help!

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    @jayeshrc - while I cannot speak on the Massdrop HE4XX, I do know that the Sennhesier HD650's are incredible headphones for the price and one of the favorites here at SBAF for the price.
     
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  16. jayeshrc

    jayeshrc Resident Crash Test Dummy

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    Yup, I owned an unmodded 650 some time ago and it was really good so I am aware what the 650 can offer (plus more, when modded). This is pretty much why I asked Marvey (or anyone else who has heard the 4XX or will hear them soon) for some help picking apart differences between the two. I save $30 choosing the 4XX and that sort of covers customs fees when it arrives so that's also a consideration for me
     
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  17. numbercube

    numbercube Acquaintance

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    First look at the distortion indicated a fixed HE-4/HE-400 for me. But if it sounds closer to the newer 400s/i, then it's not for me. Too plasticky timbre.
     
  18. Vigrith

    Vigrith Rando

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    Made an account to say I absolutely concur with your assessment of the 400i (which I owned) and the 560 (which my wife uses), that's my exact opinion of both those headphones and also why I prefer the 400S to either of them - the fact you say the 4XX are more laid back and comparable to the Code-X means I'll be buying a pair even though I don't really have a use for them.

    Appreciate the impressions as always, Marv.
     
  19. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    I just read through the Massdrop comments section for this drop, and it made me sick to my stomach. So much terrible in one location. I don't miss Massdrop.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Getting @Bill-P to pick them up. Would be interesting to see the effect of different pads. I know @brencho uses special pads for his Code-X for a slightly fuller bassier sound. Would be interesting to try these.
     
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