Massdrop x Sennheiser HD58X Jubilee

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Skyline, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

    Banned
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The 58X just so happens to have a dip in that area though, so could it be that it just doesn't reproduce it loudly enough for it to be heard?
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 2
    • List
  2. famish99

    famish99 Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Not everything can be explained purely by frequency response, there is the time domain after all...
     
  3. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

    Banned
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Which is why I ask :)
     
  4. MF_Kitten

    MF_Kitten Banned per own request

    Banned
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Okay, so... If I get a 6xx/650 and I EQ it to sound more like a 58X, chances are it'll sound better than a 58X in terms of detail? Obviously the differences in distortion are a different matter, so let's leave the lows and only do the highs. Any opinions?
     
  5. ksat90

    ksat90 Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    So I jumped in on these as well and just received them. I have the 2017 Sennheiser HD 650 for comparison.

    First things first - I like the matte black plastic better than the glossy one on the HD 650, which are an oil magnet especially this hot summer and require constant wiping. Also, the lower impedance and 3.5mm plug means I can play it out of my laptop/phone easily!

    From what I can hear, they're more similar than different. Differences are necessarily hard to tell because I can't match them perfectly by volume due to the impedance difference. Although the measurements from Massdrop and Marv show a lower upper mids than the HD 6XX, which is why I wanted to try these because I wanted slightly less upper mids from the HD 650, they don't actually sound less forward overall (I mean, it's 1-2 db less).

    They don't sound as effortless terms of presentation and in producing detail as the HD650. They do present a good amount of detail, but sound slightly sharpened/aggressive instead of being naturally there. Perhaps the easiest way to put it is like visual terms - the photo taken by the HD 58x is sharp but emphasizes larger, chunkier detail (like clear sharp edges); the photo taken by the HD 650 has more fine detail (like texture of objects).

    I'm sure there is some parallel theory/function for audio transmission from visual transmission in terms of something like the OTF/MTF applied to both recording and playback devices (but probably more complex given the domain of time), which might explain high/low level detail reproduction. Maybe someone can explain better.

    The bass sounds as good or better - I thought there might be increased distortion, but its pretty well controlled and sufficiently impactful as compared to the HD 650.

    From memory, their presentation reminds me of the HD 598 I once had, which was also slightly aggressive sounding (not something to do with FR). However, they do everything better than the HD 598 which I bought around this price too.

    Overall, the differences are pretty small, but value proposition is great. It's another "you won't go wrong" headphone for the price.

    However, if you're thinking of choosing between the HD 58x and 6xx I would say spring for the HD 6xx if you don't already have one of the HD 6xx series. I only have pretty modest gear (computer -> amp without a DAC) and can already hear a small difference in resolution/presentation, so that could be more pronounced differences given better gear.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 8
    • List
  6. famish99

    famish99 Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Oh man, I definitely noticed this but could not put it into words as well as you have.
     
  7. Grattle

    Grattle Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Likes Received:
    336
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    USA
    Surprised - Welcome yo the Party - Deadpool 2 s/t sounds dope on hd58x/iPhone se. impressed. A little stoned too, maybe, not really - shut up I am not!
     
  8. donunus

    donunus Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Philippines
    Try removing the foam at the back grille and post your impressions. I love them that way.
     
  9. Pillars

    Pillars Embarrassment to Colorado crew

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    I second donusus's suggestion. I did not like the stock method of cup foam dampening. From what I've read it was a bit of a last minute change to up the sub bass compared to loading the back of driver, I don't know... I thought the stock dampening gave the headphone a weird cupped sound compared to the 6X0. To fix this to my tastes I used a dynomat doughnut with dust filter screen on top of that and removed the rear foam. I'm quite enjoying the sound coming out of them now.

    The 58X may fool you a bit by sounding more detail forward than the 6XX however when you start comparing they can't get there on low level detail retrieval.. The treble sounds more engaging to me however. They get me toe tappin' with ease and at this price point I don't know of anything that competes. Quite the opposite, there are many much more expensive headphones out there that they embarrass. Highly recommend these for a daily driver or a bedside set of cans. You can't go wrong after some very easy modding.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  10. Whatup69

    Whatup69 Rando

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    NZ
    Home Page:
    Modding the 58X is attempting to polish a turd. Only Zeos fanboys and Reddit noobs keep this availability heuristic alive. The treble is the worst aspect of the 58X. It manages to be unresolving yet hard and fatiguing at the same time. Prototypical "fake detail" from a cheap transducer. The tonality and timbre is significantly worse than the HD6X0 and whilst 58X has more bass, it just sounds bloated and one note.

    These aren't worth their price of admission and sonically are HD558/598 tier at best. If anyone is considering these and are on a budget, you'll be much better served by a KSC75 or Porta Pro.
     
  11. kixx

    kixx Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Imperial Starfleet
    Gave a listen to these at work today. A friend of mine bought them of MD. The trebble sounds very close to my former hd599, and worse than that of the 660s. It' definitely not a 660s driver. It doesn't sound as smooth, nor as resolving. With the foam removed, the treble has a graininess similar to the 598/599. I think it's quite fatiguing on long listening sessions ...
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 1
    • List
  12. Pillars

    Pillars Embarrassment to Colorado crew

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    It's definitely no 6X0 but for something that doesn't require a lot of amping and with some modding is more than tolerable..even musical I don't feel my money was wasted so I don't feel it's a headphone for only a "Zeos fan or Reddit noob". I had high hopes when receiving the headphone that quickly became disappointment.. however, a few changes and while not the most resolving it is not something like a Beyer either. After dampening the rear of the driver I've not been fatigued, though everyone's tolerance is different. I will say though it took testing a good few materials until finding the sound I was happy with. I didn't like just removal of the rear foam, though sound was not as bad with it present.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  13. kixx

    kixx Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Imperial Starfleet
    It's definitely better than the hd5xx range. The 599 is super aggressive and narrow and jam fists detail in the ear. The 598 is more forgiving and slightly wider than the 59999999, and the 58x jubilee is wider and more resolving than the 2 (despite the extra dampening it has). At least that was my impression after a short listen (having the 598 and 599 fresh in my mind). If i were to rank their range, i would say (to my preference) 5999999, 598, 58x jubilee, 600 (after the short listen i thought too bright and not for me), 660s, and 650. 6xx has not been on my ears so i don't know anything about that.
     
  14. gaspasser

    gaspasser Flatulence Maestro

    Friend
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Likes Received:
    5,725
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Suburban DC
    These remarks lack context. What amps, sources are involved for you to make such declarations? Additionally, why is modifying considered an “availability heuristic” here? I think you should consult more than Wikipedia for the use of terminology like this.

    I actually think it is a pretty good headphone especially after putting older 650 pads on as suggested by @RiddleyWalker
    I like it with the Holo Cyan and find it has non-fatiguing treble like HD600 does for me
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
  15. Whatup69

    Whatup69 Rando

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    NZ
    Home Page:
    HD600 from Valhalla 2 is my reference. Ultimately preferred it to my old HD800S which is why I sold it. Used the 58X on the same HD600 chain when I received it and sold it within 48 hours. Currently in between DACs right now but actually looking to pick up a Cyan myself if it checks out after a demo.

    The 58X is just a classic case of both availability heuristic and confirmation bias.

    Newbies want their HD58X to be good and want to believe they are getting a new HD6X0 headphone for $150, see all these reviews and misinformation by zeos and also the /r/headphones subreddit full of confirmation bias affirming their own false inferences about the headphone eg. materials/driver same as HD660S, do these mods and it'll definitely make them so much better etc etc. Then that same availability heuristic is propagated. Nothing wrong with using whatever terms I choose to use when they're applicable.

    And I couldn't disagree more regarding the treble vs HD600. The HD600, for what it is, has a smooth yet resolving nature to it that provides a very organic treble timbre, resolving far more low level detail than the 58X. The treble on the 58X sticks out like a sore thumb in comparison and sounds much harsher with far worse quality. The difference is not subtle and I would highly question anybody who says it is, let alone states they are alike.

    I have played violin for over a decade and the HD600 is one of the few headphones that get violin timbre, along with the harmonic overtones as close to "correct" as it gets to my ears. The 58X is simply a long way off in this regard, especially in the treble and performs similarly from a technical standpoint as the aforementioned HD558/598 tier of headphones.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 5
    • List
  16. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,161
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Asia
    Have u tried hd600 with dekoni fenestrated sheepskin pads?
     
  17. Whatup69

    Whatup69 Rando

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    NZ
    Home Page:
    HD6X0 line really only sounds their best with none other than genuine senn pads. I know they are more expensive than a lot of aftermarket pads but it's worth getting new pads every couple of years to freshen up your HD600. Damn foam compresses pretty easily and impacts the sound quite a bit.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 2
    • List
  18. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,161
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Asia
    Yeah that is the sad and unfortunate truth. Even applies to the hd800. I feel non-stock pads may correct the tonality and comfort, but sacrifice technicality.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 2
    • List
  19. Pillars

    Pillars Embarrassment to Colorado crew

    Banned
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2016
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Northern Colorado
    You speak as if the 58X is stealing lunch money from orphan children. You have to dress it right and it shows up to class. Just don't expect it to be in the same league as it's bigger brother.

    I do hope you gave modding a shot before letting it go though. It sounds better after the dampening is moved to the back of the driver IMO. People like different amounts as well and in my testing with the 6XX/58X foam placement and amount changes the sound.

    Best part about the 58X is I can drive it on my lesser sources with decent results and while it is definitely not the best headphone I've got it still sounds good. You could buy a lot worse for $150.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 2
    • List
  20. kixx

    kixx Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Imperial Starfleet
    The 58x jubilee is a good pair of headphones ... especially at 150$. It's better than the 5xx line, at about the same price. However, comparing it to the 6xx line is not fair, or saying it's as good as the lesser 660s (on which it's presumably built on) is wrong. I think MD is not entirely honest about the drivers. The headphones sound good, but removing the dampening in them, to my ears, makes them intense like the 599 (which i had and sold because of how fatiguing it gets). The driver has a grit in the treble that's quite .... coarse, and feels uncontrolled. It lacks the 6x0 smoothness. It sounds too close to the 5xx to be based on the 6xx. Also the driver looks like a 5xx series based driver, not a 6xx series based ... maybe more threading on the coils to give it higher impedance?

    58x jubilee:
    [​IMG]

    5xx series:
    [​IMG]

    I really don't think the dampening is on the back to keep dirt out of the driver. You could just slap a foam pad on the back of the driver itself ... the reason it's there is for filtering sound and boosting bass. There are mods out there that have a foam ring glued to the driver itself, stating that it makes the headphones sound wider and cleaner. I don't know. I gave them a short listen at the office on my e10k and i don't think much ... not really impressed, just sort of meh, another 5xx flavor. Removing the cup foam made them worse.
     
    • Like / Agree Like / Agree x 2
    • List

Share This Page