Mechanical Keyboards...

Discussion in 'Geek Cave: Computers, Tablets, HT, Phones, Games' started by aufmerksam, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. supertransformingdhruv

    supertransformingdhruv Almost "Made"

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    Have you tried MX Clears? I'm switching between my MX blues at home & the clears at work (with a numpad that has browns). The clears are just a little heavier & the tactile bump is what I'd call smooth. I'm constantly bottoming my blues out, but that doesn't happen on the clears.
     
  2. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    I already watched this. I would prefer first-hand RL user experience over this. Too many switches man.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  3. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    This might be it. Need to try these. Blues were quite awesome, but as I said slightly too clicky.

    My point is that I am not that picky, I prefer Apple external keyboards and some laptop KBs over some Mech switches. Browns might be great for people who prefer low actuation force.
     
  4. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    This is also a good read

    https://kono.store/blogs/keyboards/silo-beam
     
  5. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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    Ergo Clears. Much more pronounced bump than Browns, no high pitched tick sound like Blues.

    I personally found the ramp up in force with vanilla Clears far too much, I prefer to bottom out when typing rather than have the keys mush out partway into the travel.

    Ergo Clears are a pain though, you have to make them. Zeal does a pre-made version, and I suspect that Holy Pandas might be similar (not sure, I've not paid attention to newer developments).

    If anyone else could chime in with options that are similar to Ergo Clears but more conveniently sourced, that'd be great, because I might need a load more switches in a couple months. I've just ordered an Atreus ergo board.
     
  6. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Browns are pretty awful, and easily the worst switch type they make. Tactile Cherry is really just a gritty linear.

    Zeal makes decent actually tactile switches, also input club Hako switches, novel keys box tactiles too.

    Depends if you want a rounded bump or a sharp bump.

    Also ofc topre, especially if you replace the domes, imo. But then again I prefer a sharper tactile bump.
     
  7. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    I'd rather DIY something like the ergos than have some X brand switches that are a pain in the ass to find on a keyboard.

    I was hoping to get a KB for around 100USD, it seems these modular things are way more expensive.
     
  8. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Browns are just too soft, at 65cN they would make more sense.
     
  9. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    That's what MX Clear are. They still suck.

    Cherry switches in general just aren't very good, the linear and clicky are mediocre and the tactiles are just poor.

    Gateron and Kailh have them beat in all fields.
     
  10. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    The BKEs are too f'ing snappy. You need more of a caveat here.
     
  11. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Ok, but one question remains. Wtf am I supposed to do with these switches? Need some modular rack for this? I think my KB has soldered MX Switches. I might re-check.

    Edit. It seems you need to solder these anyway. Hope the pins are the same. Would be cool if I could use the same KB. It's nice and sturdy.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  12. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Unless your kb is specifically hot-swap yeah you need to solder.

    All mx-compatible switches except low-profile Kailh use the same basic mounting pins. Most switches have extra plastic locating pins, most pcbs have holes for those, in case you can just snip them off.
     
  13. Xen

    Xen Friend

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    Now, you can get modular keyboards that are socketed to allow easy replacement of switches. I know Glorious and some of the $100-tier Chinese keyboards are modular.

    I own a Kira that is also modular, and due to the market, I suspect this trend should be increasing until all enthusiast keyboards will be modular. I ordered my Kira with NovelKeys Box Pale Blues (described as heavy, snappy, clicky). They feel weird to me, kinda mushy, because they are quite linear until they hit the click bar.

    I used to have a Corsair K70 with MX Reds, which I hated and was thankful when Corsair quality caught up to it. The keyboard just died (corrupt firmware with no way of reflashing since it was a V1).

    I use a Ducky One TKL with MX Browns for gaming, which I like very much.

    My main typing keyboard is a custom Winkeyless B.87 EX (full size) that I built with Cherry MX Greens for most keys and Gateron Blues for keys that I hit with my pinky. I love the feel and the sound of the Greens as I am a heavy typer. I HAD MX Blues on it, but Cherry's QA made 80% of the switches I purchase fail either the feel, the sound, or both. Greens also had some failures, but I bought enough of them. The Gaterons were pretty consistent.
     
  14. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    You'd love NK x Kailh Box Royals then, those have a "shake hands with danger" level of snap!
     
  15. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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    DIY is either fun, or a total pain in the ass, depending on how you look at it. Either way, it's time consuming. You'll blow your budget though- a load of MX Clears will be $50, springs will be $15, lube $20 (because if you're opening up every single switch to fish out and replace a spring, you may as well lube the interior). So that's $85 without the keyboard itself.

    I found soldering to be the fast and easy part. Replacing the springs was the slow and easy part. Desoldering on the other hand, was slow and painful. I tried both a wick and a solder sucker (had better luck with the latter) but still managed to lift a trace off the board. Fortunately someone was on hand who could easily repair it.

    I'm with Taverius on the general aversion to Cherry switches. There's usually something off with them to start with (tinny click of the blues, total lack of resistance on the reds), but once past that, they feel gritty as the stems are rough, at least on the browns and clears that I have tried. I've read mention that Cherry may have finally retooled after using the same molds for decades, and recent switches might be smoother, but I've not bought a new board for 3-4 years now.

    Overall, I've found my preferences are towards a totally different switch feel- bucking spring, Alps, Topre. Switches which have high tactility and a sudden collapse point partway in their travel. MX-style switches, with their use of a linear spring which ramp up resistance the further you get into the key stroke, seem more like an outlier design approach, but it's what most people associate with mechanical keyboards. For me, the Ergo Clear is really a compromise that mitigates this inherent design effect- the relatively weak spring and the big tactile bump simply manages to mask the ramp up of resistance as the key travels deeper.
     
  16. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Even if they have, the issue remains that they only do 45 and 65 activation switches, one of which is light enough to activate just resting your fingers on the keys, and the other too heavy for most people.

    At that point you might as well get Gateron inks, Kailh Box, or one of the other dozen of good switches which are 5-8$ for 10.

    Let alone topre domes or matais alps clones.
     
  17. Xen

    Xen Friend

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    Lubing... my experiments with lubing clicky MX-style switches was a total failure. Turned them into silent switches...

    I've taken apart my B.87 3 times now...The first time was with a bulb sucker and wick... never again. I went with a cheapo ZD-985 desoldering station (which STILL had a bad power cord with flipped terminals... After reading reviews, I made sure to check with a DMM before using.) Works very well with through-hole stuff. Still annoying as even the best desolder-er may not get all of the solder from within the hole.
     
  18. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    While that's somewhat unavoidable, a really thin coat of Tribosys 3203 works well.

    It has to literally be just a film, mind. Less is more with switches anyway, but here you have to be levitical about it.

    You can use 205 or 3204 for the rest of the switch, it's just the small part of the slider that activates the click you have to be anal about.
     
  19. dncnexus

    dncnexus Friend

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    I currently use a Kinesis Advantage 2 with Quiet Red switches that I modded with a damping material inside and updated my keycaps to keycaps from keycaps.sh which I felt was a good upgrade. I also am going to work on building a Dactyl Manuform in the future, not sure on specifications on that yet, but sounds like a fun project!
     
  20. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    I picked up a Corsair K70 MK2 with the low profile cherry speedswitches. It's nice so far. Feels more like a Topre than any other mech switch I've tried, but with a nice short travel and low profile keycaps. Sound is a softer thunk. Seems well-built, though time will tell. I wish it had a removable cable instead of this burly double-sized cable. I wish it had a more petite chassis instead of this the-90s-called-and-want-their-bezels-back tank. I wish the iCue software didn't suck balls.

    The volume wheel is nice, though, and the dedicated no-fn-key-needed media keys are nice. And again, the switches feel pretty good for typing (no gaming here).
     

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