Meier audio "Country": a DSP including EQ, Crossfeed and more with real knobs and sliders.

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by sacredgates, May 20, 2019.

  1. Jan Meier

    Jan Meier MOT: Meier Audio

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    Dear friends,

    it has been a while now since I last posted in this thread. But a lot has happened since.

    A new prototype has been made and works very well. The enclosure is larger than that of the original prototype and in my opinion it looks much better. The control elements are more "logically" arranged and the slide-potentiometers are larger, which gives a better control over equalizing.

    Also the analog part has been "upgraded" and the headphone output now sounds pretty good. Detailed, fast, yet smooth and powerful.

    A picture of the new prototype:

    [​IMG]

    Some people find the symbols used pretty "confusing". They prefer plain text. But would the latter really make the use more easy? After reading the user-manual the symbols should be relatively easy to understand and using plain text on the front will not really make reading the user-manual unnecessary. A picture with both solutions was made:


    [​IMG]

    Which solution do you prefer?

    I have decided to present the COUNTRY in February at the CanJam in New York. So if interested, please pay me a visit at my boot.Cheers

    Jan
     
  2. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    Personally? I would prefer a mix of text and symbols. Some text is too long and we all, more or less, understand the universal meaning, like "volume", "on-off", "balance" and the inputs but the others are tough to understand (for me at least) without text. Gain could have "gain" on the right side, as it is now, and symbols on the left, i think that will be good for everyone. So i would prefer some with text to be more comprehensive and some with symbols.

    Between both i definitely prefer with text.


    EDIT

    To add some further thoughts about the text part. It does not have to be so extended. Everyone understands the following:

    Gain - H, M, L
    Inputs - Coax, Tos, USB
    Reverb + Bass (doesnt need the "enhancer" part)
    Equalizer - doesn't need the "sampling frequency" part or the "Bitshft indicator".
    Crossfeed - would be better to have a small speaker symbol instead of "speaker" and the same with headphones a small headphone symbol instead of the word "headphone".
    Crossfeed - Instead of "notch frequency" could be "notch freq"

    All these changes would make it look much more "clean" while still being informative.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  3. Don Quichotte

    Don Quichotte New

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    I will need some kind of digital EQ or room correction in the future, but I'm not sure this device suits my needs best, so I'm not necessarily a potential buyer. That being said, between the two options above I also clearly prefer the text.
     
  4. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    Another vote for the text.
     
  5. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    Not in my price range but voting text for channel balance, bass enhancement+reverb, crossfeed/delay, and speaker/headphone crossfeed + mono. All others are okay as symbols but the ones for gain look a bit awkward; maybe a redesign for less clunky symbols on gain would be better?

    Alternatively, it's intuitive for gain to go from low>high, so maybe a single symbol similar to volume but with notches or breaks in the arc and a "GAIN" label next to it would be the more elegant solution. I'm sorry I just personally find the cramped text for gain to look stodgy and the three triangles to look ugly and uncoordinated.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
  6. k1arg

    k1arg Facebook Friend

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    FWIW, I looked at the photo first and thought that the gain switch was something like a control for crossfeed angle.
     
  7. Riotvan

    Riotvan Snoofer in the Woofer

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    Symbols look cooler but text is more practical. Then again that's what manuals are for, at least that's what i heard.
     
  8. damaged-goods

    damaged-goods Acquaintance

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    I'm all for symbols, they are typical for the Cordas and it's easy to get used to them. I have a CLASSIC and a DACCORD and a JAZZ and I find the symbols work very well.
     
  9. Jan Meier

    Jan Meier MOT: Meier Audio

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    Dear friends,

    many thanks for your comments.

    As expected opinions do differ strongly. But maybe there is a kind of solution.

    It has been suggested to use symbols but add a (plastic/silicon) "cover" with text labels that people can use if they feel the need. I still have to think about this one.

    Wish you all happy Holidays! Maybe we see each other in February in New York.

    Cheers

    Jan
     
  10. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    Will the text bleed together?
    (Are the letters too close together? Increase character tracking?)

    I appreciate the text version because the controls are so different from the usual DAC/Amp combos.

    You've put together a novel combination of features in a DAC/Amp combo. I think that text labels encourage fiddling around with the controls more easily and often.

    Aesthetically, this already has a more “Pro Audio” utilitarian look. The shape, finish, number of physical controls, placement and white printing lead me to think that you might as well use text unless it bleeds together and is hard to read in actual practice.

    My change recommendations…

    high
    med gain
    low

    or:

    III
    II gain
    I


    coaxial
    usb
    optical


    reverb reverb
    + bass

    In your mock-up, should the “ON” LED be activated since there are two other LEDs activated? (The unit must be turned “ON” if the “48kHz” & “x4” LEDs are lit?)



    One of the things that makes Country interesting to me is the ability to adjust according to music, physical state, and headphones in a given listening session. Instead of setting the Country up "once and done" with the manual when you first get the unit, the physical controls that you have provided lend themselves to setting up for different listening sessions as needed.

    I have the luxury of firing up a rig and then switching to a different headphone/amp/tube/DAC combo based on how I'm feeling. I can tune with different combos per my craving. Your design is quite interesting if it helps people get closer to that level of customization but with less gear.
     
  11. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    I agree with @CEE TEE , and I will offer a few more suggestions that would still allow for text (which I greatly prefer):

    The On/Off button: Just use the universal icon below or the to the right of the button for either the text of icon view.
    [​IMG]
    I don't understand how the equalizer and bit shift works, but I don't think you need the words "Sample Frequency" as that is obvious.

    Hope this helps a little. The COuntry looks very interesting. I use some of the same features with the RME DAC, but they loaded it with so many features, it's hard to easily get to them. I love the physical switches.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The pro audio aesthetic leads itself to lettering. My preference is German instead of English. German lends itself to compound technical terms better than English.
     
  13. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    A vote for text here, its the lesser evil. This is a complex piece of kit with many features unfamiliar to most. There’s no point slapping a bunch symbols on there if the user has to keep checking the manual to translate hieroglyphics.

    Using a cover for text will degrade the aesthetic of the product enormously. I can’t imagine it looking anything other than tacky.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  14. shotgunshane

    shotgunshane Floridian Falcon

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    The symbols certainly look better but I have no idea how the hell some of them are supposed to relate to their function. I would probably find them very frustrating at first.

    I like CeeTee’s suggestion for gain: III, II and I.

    Keep your symbols for usb, optical and coax. Those are pretty simple and intuitive.
    Also keep the balance symbols. Those make sense too.

    I like Allan Marcus suggestion for power. Pretty universal.

    The lower set of crossfeed symbols really don’t make any sense to me. Looks confusing. I also don’t like the bass and reverb symbols. I suppose one would eventually learn them.

    Whichever direction you go, make sure it’s easy to see/read. Those of us with crappy close vision and hate to wear glasses get frustrated with tiny indicators.
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Don't mix symbols with lettering unless a particular symbol is universal and well known. As in well known to normal people like my parents.

    I would prefer to see gain in exact values: 0db, 4db, and 8db. This makes it consistent with other features, i.e. the EQ, and again fits the pro audio gear aesthetic. Make it so that the user knows exactly the function of each switch and lever. This is the golden rule.

    To this day, I still despise the symbology on the Schiit preamps. Despite owning them for a period of time, I keep forgetting which is mute and which switches to different preamp stages. It's incredibly annoying.

    Ultimately trust your gut. End users polls tend you give you garbage data, unless you can get behind a one-way mirror and observe; and even then, the results may still be suspect.

    I will say nothing more.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  16. DEATHxMACHINE

    DEATHxMACHINE Friend

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    I vote for symbols. I think people will learn them with in 5 minutes of reading the manual and using the unit. I immediately understood 80% of the symbols, the ones I didn't know were the bass/reverb dial and 6Khz crossfeed dial. I personally like the look.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  17. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    If you go with symbols, include a small card, or something that can be printed and placed on the unit (or to slide under it) with a short explanation of the symbols. A cheat sheet for those of us with horrible memories.
     
  18. shabta

    shabta Facebook Friend

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    As someone who still uses a StageDac in a second system, I vote symbols. It confused me for about a day, and then, for the last nine years ,no problem. I kind of like the symbols. And honestly it's your (Jan Meier) brand. I think that is super cool.
     
  19. Jan Meier

    Jan Meier MOT: Meier Audio

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    Dear friends,

    thanks for all the suggestion.

    " you might as well use text unless it bleeds together and is hard to read in actual practice."

    " Those of us with crappy close vision and hate to wear glasses get frustrated with tiny indicators."

    With good printing the text will not bleed together but the lettering is very small and therefore is not easy to read. And my concern with lettering is, that the front will look "overloaded".

    " Using a cover for text will degrade the aesthetic of the product enormously."

    True, but when used to the device the cover can be removed. It's just for the initial phase of getting to know all functions.

    " The unit must be turned “ON” if the “48kHz” & “x4” LEDs are lit?"

    No, the unit will also accept sampling frequencies deviating from standard value. The ON-LED is really needed as all other LED's can well be off.

    "include a small card, or something that can be printed and placed on the unit"

    I have been thinking of that too!


    Enjoy 2020!!!

    :)

    Jan
     
  20. Jan Meier

    Jan Meier MOT: Meier Audio

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    Dear friends,

    this week I have finally been able to update my website. The latest information on the COUNTRY project can be found there. I also try to explain the logic behind the symbols.

    Enjoy reading!

    :)

    Jan
     

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