Merv's Politically Incorrect Audio Blog

Discussion in 'SBAF Blogs' started by purr1n, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    I really wish I wasn't posting. It's an unhealthy mental compulsion, and I'm here for the plankton. Still, I'm glad it is appreciated.

    I am truly amazed at how 'science' has stepped up. Academics and drug companies have done what I thought was simply impossible, in terms of understanding virus biology, developing the vaccines, and fighting valiantly (but only somewhat successfully) against an onslaught of misinformation and political interference.

    I completely agree that this really isn't translating well into a broader public and government support for scientific research. There are a lot of reasons for this.....

    Scientists generally love their job, and politics isn't a natural 'step up' career progression the same way it might be for a lawyer or business leader.

    The sort of scientists who do want it get into politics tend to be the fringe elements... Either starry eyed idealists who end up in the Green party, or extreme pragmatists who think people can/should be swayed by data alone. I gravitate between these two groups. Most scientists therefore make terrible politicians. The emotion of the big lie is far more seductive to the general public, and we're not trained for it.

    And yes, anti-science lobbies are far more powerful and seductive to the general public than the real science. They are better skilled, better resourced, and better at rousing the rabble. COVID was an uphill battle the second Trump called it a little flu, Fox News fell into line behind him, and supporters placed their stake in the ground... It is now far more political than science.

    Fixing this is very, very difficult. It's taken decades for science the get the upper hand on global warming over the seduction of dinosaur juice, and it will probably take many more years before science manages to convince the remaining holdouts about the pandemic. But even then, there are so many anti science regressions. The number of people who think the moon landing was faked, or that the earth is flat should probably keep every sane and rational person awake at night. I simply don't know how we can fight this.

    For-profit medicine certainly ushers towards this; the US medical system is fucked. But in terms of the science, I disagree in the strongest possible terms.

    You have no idea what you are talking about. The scientific consensus is beyond reproach. The politics is coming from people who know nothing about science.
     
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  2. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    To add to what purr1n said, science as such is just a methodology. The public does not really understand or care about science as such, nor should they though this upsets a certain kind of progressive. Much of our cultural understanding and belief is built upon the technological benefits of science. Technology and science as such should not be confused, and it must be understood that technology is wrapped up in our prosperity and self-understanding about progress, the good, the triumph of history, etc. etc. As purr1n has pointed to, and for a variety of reasons from a variety of different directions, it is this cultural story that is under severe strain if perhaps it is not quite 'unraveling', and thus trust in the story of technological progress that is benignly good and for which the benefits are well and fairly distributed is no longer there - and for good reason, because of all the counter evidence that this story is not straightforwardly true.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm pretty sure I did not say the science is fucked or bad. You seem to imply that I said this. I probably hit the US governmental websites for data and analysis (medical and economic research) more than anyone else on SBAF. The USA institutions are amazingly strong and a goldmine of information.

    @crenca gets what I'm saying: the application of science...
     
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  4. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    I was quoting and replying to bilboda there.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The reason science hasn't gotten the upper hand is because the solutions proposed from this science look towards 2050 or 2099 instead of today.

    If the f'ing politicians in California mandated the PUC with safety - writing up the power companies for not fixing those ancient power lines instead of not building moar solar, then all these small towns wouldn't be burning down every year for several years ongoing now. If the tree-huggers would realize that California is becoming more and more of a desert because of climate change, then shouldn't taxes be spent on building water storage infrastructure instead of credits going to Tesla buyers? If climate change is real, then why are cities like Calabasas banning plastic straws instead of banning new construction on top or next to a dry hill that burns down every 15-20 years? Instead of $20B spent on a bullet train that resulted in nothing, why didn't this $20B get spent on forest management? Why isn't the Sierra Club in California allowing cutting down of overgrown forests to avoid CO2 emissions from massive difficult to control forest fires.

    JFC, I'd love to sail on a solar ship to Taiwan instead of taking a Boeing 787. Unfortunately, I don't have rich friends like Greta who will loan me theirs. I also need to work, unlike Greta and her parents.

    And finally: the biggest causes of climate change: f'ing too many people on the planet and feeding them; developing nations wanting to be rich, after the rich nations got rich already by emitting massive greenhouse gases. The USA and most of the EU can eliminate emissions to the point (at great cost) where only the methane from our farts contributes to greenhouse gases, but we would still be fucked because of China and India (and also Germany who loves to build cars for export - stated they will not meet their targets because they are not retards and believe in Germany first as they should).

    Where's the science saying that people are the cause? This is the real inconvenient truth. f**k you Al Gore.

    I'll bet you the average Sierra Club Porker is significantly wealthier than me, and as a result is responsible for a shitload more emissions. Flying, boating, and eventually driving on with that Land Rover caravan to see bears, rhinos, and penguins in the pristine wilderness of Alaska, Africa, Antarctica takes a ton of gas. Sure they got their two Teslas at home, but on their annual trip, fire up that Airbus, pour that hundreds of gallons of gasoline into their boats. Make sure those racks on the Land Rovers are filled with tanks of extra gas because that spot with the rare bird is 300 miles inland through rough terrain.

    https://content.sierraclub.org/outings/search?facets=locales

    Now do you get why people feel Climate Change is fake? Personally, I believe in climate change. However, Climate Change is a scam.
     
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  6. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    No, these are "solutions" proposed from politics. The solution science would propose is a little too much for the public to bear (literally zero emissions right now).

    There are scientists who agree with what you're saying, but coming up with a solution that is both scientifically and politically agreeable is quite difficult.

    Incidentally, China has taken more real action against climate change than any developed nation in the world (forgive the propaganda like statement, but it is hard to argue against it).
     
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  7. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    In regards to science, pharma, doctors (hospital groups) and, everything else being driven by profit - I had a discussion with a friend the other day about how corporations suck the life out of their employees in the name of profit. My response was that to some degree, we are ourselves to blame. Every single one of us who has a retirement account and/or owns stocks, wants to see pretty numbers at the end of every quarter. Very few of us (if any), are hitting the boards and CEOs over the head about the treatment of employees which lead to our own personal wealth creation.

    I'm not saying that we're solely or mostly at fault (we're small fish compared to the ultra rich who own the vast majority of corporations). Just pointing out that nothing is simple. If you or your retirement funds own a piece of Apple, Phizer, pick your company here, you are a (small) part of the problem.
     
  8. Beefy

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    The science on climate change hasn't really changed in 30 years, since before I even finished high school. The problem and solutions are still the same - we need to cut carbon release at all costs. It has taken politicians, policy and the public decades to catch up. And yeah, the actual actions being taken are still quite lacking.

    Is this the fault of the science? I really don't think it is. Even if the sci comm was 100% perfect, no amount of data is able to convince some people that they should make sacrifices and cut consumption for the greater good. I mean shit, here we all are with multi thousand dollar audio setups, how many of us have made, or are willing to make real sacrifices?

    The parallels with COVID bite hard. About 1/3 of Americans are unwilling to protect themselves and their neighbours through vaccination. Not because of the science, but because of belligerence, politics and selfishness.
     
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  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    That's not a solution because it's impossible. As long as you live, you will emit emissions. Zero emissions is a marketing scam. The real solution is depopulation. Putting an end the financial concept of "growth" and PE ratios of 40 being OK.

    That's bullshit propaganda from Xi. The EU got on their shit early. The USA 10-20 years later. It's amazing it's going down at all considering population increases in the EU and USA.

    upload_2021-10-2_21-54-6.png
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Exactly, I'm not gotta cut carbon. f**k you Sierra Club.

    P.S. As far as real actions, I bet I do a shit-ton more:

    Generally non-consumer, few gadgets, use phones until they die (I still have Pixel 2, wife has iPhone 7), no consoles except Switch someone here gave me, same clothes (I mostly wear SBAF and ZMF T-shirts), New Balance shoes have holes, mostly telecommute, compost, veggie garden, meat is a treat - stews last days - otherwise small quantities shared by family Asian style, no motorboat, same furniture since we got married (seriously) or hand me down couches until we moved here to TX when we finally got some new stuff since we gave away our plasma TVs. The worst things we have are probably the Jeeps.

    Sorry, Gavin Newsome can go f**k himself. He ain't taking our Jeeps away because I know as a family even with the Jeeps, we are responsible for shit-ton less emissions.

    Going Green: a way for rich people to feel good about being a consumerist pig like the parents in Spirited Away.
     
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  11. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    Over the years I've seen plenty of scientific reports trying to calculate the maximum human capacity of the planet at current and future technology levels. It always looks grim for about half of us. This science is dismissed by the public as quackery and alarmism. Is this the fault of science, or people?

    So what do we do then? You working on depopulation? I'm sure you have access to big guns in Texas. I'm sure you have a bathtub and razor blades. I am obviously being 100% facetious by suggesting mass murder or suicide, but is our unwillingness to take action the fault of the science or the people? Was China's one child policy enlightened, fascist, or scientific? How the hell did we even get to talking about this?
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'll tell you what I may start doing: shaming the folks who eat a ton of meat everyday, shaming folks who don't compost their garbage for their garden, shaming folks for not having a garden, shaming folks for not camping out by the beach or campsite at least one day each wekk and not using electricity at all. I lived in Santa Cruz in the 90s. I know how to be a smug self-righteous asshole to city folk who weren't considered green enough.

    Yup. I don't think people are dumb. People are inherently smart and understand that the best way to survive is to get any advantage that they can for the coming apocalypse. If that advantage is continued use of fossil fuel, then let it be. It doesn't mean we can't hedge our bets when it makes sense. Wind is cheaper in areas of TX than fossil fuels. Same with solar as TX embarks on solar. The smart play is to use fossil fuels as a transition rather than a cold stop. China ain't gonna stop using coal. They will give lip service and do jack shit.

    Basically, I think there's a good chance, the Middle East, China, most of Africa, and parts of South America get fucked a 100 years from now because of too many people on the planet.

    Easy answer. They should have stopped the policy earlier because China is heading toward a situation where they have too many old people and not enough working age people. This gives them a huge disadvantage in the game of Civilization.
     
  13. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    Zero emissions is impossible but a massive cut is not. Nuclear energy is greener than solar and wind. Unfortunately, everybody watched too many Chernobyl documentaries. However, there is real progress being made on micro reactors. They're basically the size of a shipping container and transportable. I don't understand the mechanics of it but apparently there is safety built in since a failure results in the core hitting the salt water the reactor is in and the reaction is killed. I suppose they could be land based sitting in a pool of salt water as well. And if one does go nuclear, they're small enough to not cause a disaster.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Don't even get me started on nuclear. Ex-Senator Boxer killed a nuclear plant north of San Diego. It had some bad pipes from manufacturer Mitsubishi. It could have been fixed, but the powerful Sierra Club, Boxer, and Fujishima made it politically impossible. San Diego got fucked on that one.

    I bet none of you lived in California and had to pay electric and water bills, fill up the gas tank, or have had to evacuate because of no forest management (Sierra Club says let it grow). You have no idea how bad the consumerist version of "Green" can be. Green is great though if you make good money and/or don't have mouths to feed.
     
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  15. Tchoupitoulas

    Tchoupitoulas Friend

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    Where some of this gets even more depressing is in our inability to make effective changes swiftly, even when doing so appears to be straightforward and sensible.

    Back in June, Nevada outlawed "non-functional" grass (on street medians, etc.) as part of an effort to conserve water (AP article about it here). I don't know enough about the issue or about hydrology to comment on the merits of the law. Apparently the law was passed with bipartisan support. If we assume that this is indeed the right thing to do then why the hell does the law stipulate that the ban will take effect in 2027? Surely it doesn't take five and a half years to let grass die and to plant succulents? (Or do they have to remove the watering systems?)

    As Purr1n notes, our ability to contend successfully to climate change will require adapting effectively and swiftly enough.

    I hate to say it but ASR is ahead of the curve on some of this stuff: we should all be switching over to peddle power to drive our amplifiers. In his review of the Violectric V281, Amir writes:

    "I am getting worried about sitting at my desk so much doing these reviews and not getting enough exercise. Fortunately I saw on TV they have a set of wheels you can peddle while sitting at your desk that lets you lose 30 pounds in 30 days. Yippee! Need some money to buy it so please donate"
    [Edit: in case it didn't come across this way, I'm being sarcastic at the end here]
     
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  16. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    What a f'ing dick.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Ugh, I thought you were being sarcastic about the entire thing, that you made up the entire request as a joke.

    upload_2021-10-2_23-16-43.png
    [​IMG]

    You know, I would like a Jet Ski. They are good for exercise too. (Actually they take a bit more effort to handle than a motorcycle because small craft on bouncing waves - arms, back, legs). Don't bother. I can buy it myself.
     
  18. Pancakes

    Pancakes Friend

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    I have that exact cycle. It's like $75 on Amazon. So sad to see how far Amir has fallen from his glory days at Gates' side. I wonder what's next. I love Ramen but can't afford - please donate?

    Sarcasm off.
     
  19. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    I do agree (especially re degrowth) but carbon capture sort of makes it possible to get net zero... but only sort of.
     
  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    A bit late, but stepping back a bit about science and the public... how about science having a few more heroes? Everybody here knows who Alexander Fleming was, and what discovered, right? Who here, outside the trade, knows a name and a face to attach to any of the key covid-vaccine researchers. They are not all invisible, some, at least have been written about, but what we know and remember is the pharma-company names not the individuals.

    Back to emission...
     

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