Metrum Acoustics Onyx (balanced Dac) and Jade (balanced Dac + Pre)

350 Euros for basically a Pi device...I guess as a Roon plug n' play device it's worthwhile but I can only imagine that the Allo Signature is a better device for less.

 

A hell of a lot cheaper than the Bryston BDP-Pi though, and like you say, plug and play Roon for those that can’t bother with the Pi OS distros.

 

Got it. I'm obviously not in the Roon world. I gather you still need something to receive the signal at your stereo, if its not next to your server. Or ethernet run through your house.

 

The Ambre feeds your DAC/stereo directly. If you don’t have Ethernet that can reach your Ambre (which would be near your stereo) there are options for this including:

• Ethernet-over-powerline adapters (one adapter plugs into a power outlet near your router, the other plugs in near your stereo)
• a wifi repeater/extender that is placed near your stereo that has an Ethernet out

I use the first one, connected to a network audio adapter from SOTM, that connects to my DAC via USB. Same idea as an RPi with USB out but it sounds way better and requires Ethernet. Works great.

 

Thanks. I learned something new today. I had started out with wifi and distributed audio, so never researched this approach. It would be interesting to compare the network audio adapter thru ethernet to the better current RPi to SPDIF solutions. Both the 502 DAC and the Allo Signature have high quality reclocking and isolation. It makes me wonder if they have caught up at all.

In the meantime, I'll pass along your comments and the SOTM website to a friend who is working to connect his system through ethernet.

 

Go for the digiONE SIG!

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/sbaf-dac-talk-ii.6964/page-2#post-229223



i2s def works nicely out of the 502DAC (pics are some of my tinkering)-- trick is short lines (MHz+ signals). I've seen metrum use those type ribbon cables internally for i2s also. ( Just FYI it can potentially work for you-- and, that's a one off Schiit, please don't do it ) ...also no wire with the digiPRO example.

Look for @Michael Kelly's new HDMI/ETHERNET i2s board he may (or not) be developing also...

 

Thanks Scott,

I can see two areas where I probably screwed up.

1. My cable is not even close to short.
2. I used twisted pairs with each signal having its own ground. I had hoped that the twisted pair noise immunity would keep noise down. I also probably added some ground loop issues by the multiple grounds. That might have been OK if the grounds were separate circuits on one end of the circuit, but I'm guessing that wasn't true.

It looks like you used 3 signal lines and one ground. word clock, bit clock, data + ground. Is that right?

 

Forgot a picture of my i2s mess.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xu0mticwxqe5uty/502 DAC i2s.jpeg?dl=0

 

Used one GND, then BWDM (5 wires)

 

Have you had a chance since to compare Onyx vs Yggdrasil A2 in your speaker system?

 

Mea culpa, I'm not a reliable audio fanatic, too much travel and work and skiing and listening to new music to get organized for that test

 

I am currently contemplating aquiring a new DAC. I am currently using a ProJect DAC Box RS with their linear power supply. The sound is quite okay, but it does not really make my system sing. I also mostly listen to Tidal when playing digital music, so MQA support is something I am very interested in. For me there is a clear difference when listening to their normal HiFi stream, which I believe is limited to red book 16bit 44khz. I myself am a professional opera singer, and have experienced a lot of difficulty capturing the true tonality of my voice when recording on digitial devices. Using a microphone with tubes helps alot, but there is still a lot of editing in terms of equalization that needs to be done for it to sound less harsh and more full and engaging - and more real life.

I find MQA to eliminate some of this harshness and play more musicaly. I am not an expert, but I understand that a ladder dac with nos eliminates a lot of the wrongs done by filters, which is also what MQA tries to do, so why not have the best of both worlds. Or? I would purchase the ProJect Stream Box S2 Ultra and connect it to the Onyx with the MQA module. Another option I have considered is a non r2r solution with the Teac NT 505 with the Teac CG 10 m master clock. Both are in a high price range for me, but the Teac solution can be had for around 2300 eur, and the Onyx plus MQA plus stream box is quite a lot more. Another option is the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge, which I can purchase from the same dealer as my ProJect dac and get some money in return for that.

For me it is also important that the dac has a dual mono setup, as I am convinced I can hear the difference. Any suggestions are welcome. My current setup:

Quad z4 speakers - wireworld eclipse cables (silver version for pre amp power cord) - quad II eighty mono blocks with nos tubes and KR audio kt88s - PrimaLuna dialogue premium pre amp with nos tubes - project dac box rs with ext power supply - BlueSound Note 2 connected to DAC via wireworld eclipse silver coax cable (allows for 1st mqa unfold) - project phono box rs with ext power supply - project 6perspex record player with AudioTechnica art-9 cartridge - burson soloist v. 1 headphone amp and HD 800 headphones with aftermarket silver cable

 

@AdamFrandsen
My feeling is you can‘t just go out and by a new dac/streamer in that price range before trying it preferable with your system (when you don‘t have a refence system in your head from hearing many different setups).
You seem to have the combination of educated hearing but not that much experience with dacs, otherwise I don‘t think your considerations about those quite different dacs and your thoughts about mqa make much sense.
When I tune in with what you are writing the Ambre/Onyx might come the closest to what you are looking for by far, but I can’t recommend you buying this „blind“...
Good luck on your search!

 

I’m going to agree with @sacredgates here and say that you should absolutely try to hear one of these before you commit. NOS DACs have a particular flavour that may meet your tastes, or may not. Whatever you do, do not rely on the the USB input on the Onyx - it is quite bad. That means the Stream Box S2 would not be the best choice for streamer with it since it is USB out only, unless you put another converter box in the middle, which adds more cost. To start with, I would stick with the Bluesound and use the coax digital out from that. The streamer can be an upgraded later once you decide you are satisfied with a DAC - I would suggest one upgrade at a time so you know what’s making the changes you’re hearing.

If you can get your hands on a used Onyx, or one you can return if you don’t like it, that would be ideal.

Regarding MQA, it is generally known that MQA tend to use different masters, and some sound better and some sound worse. Don’t expect a better result every time - my personal MQA experience is very limited however and I really don’t care about it. Most folks on this forum, in general, have a pretty heavy distain for MQA, so don’t expect much/any support on that front - you may want to inquire elsewhere on that piece.

The Mytek Brooklyn is also generally not well liked on this forum due to the ESS Sabre DACs employed, which many people here agree have false detail and fatiguing treble - something you will definitely avoid with the Metrum gear. They are both very different sounding DACs if you have a discerning ear. The new 9038 Pro Sabre chips may be a new exception to the “no-Sabre” rule, but that’s still yet to be proven across multiple DACs. As with all things in the DAC world, it’s not about the chip or what’s listed in the features and specs, it’s about how well it’s implemented - that goes for your notion of “dual mono”/balanced/single ended etc - there is no hard rule that says one architecture or circuit design will sound superior to another. I’m sure there are tons dirt cheap chi-fi DACs that claim a fully balanced architecture and sound like crap.

Good luck with your DAC selection and take your time.

 

I always prefer a good analogue record pressing to any digital source. And of course I can believe that there are non mqa sources that sound better, but they are just not yet streamed through any service I know of. There is a great library of classical music on Tidal, and it is very helpful to me when studying a work that I have access to as many recordigns as possible. So despite me really wanting the purest audio experience, I find myself listening mostly to Tidal streams and thus want the best experience I can get with that.

The three dacs I chose for three reasons:

1) Onyx because I buy into the r2r build and that it has an mqa module - that way I get both.
2) The Teac because I am stupid and think it matters that it has dual dacs, lol - but also because the ak4497 chip is supposedly very musical, and not as harsh as you describe with the es sabre chips. That is also my own experience, I owned a Burson Conductor v2+ with an es9018 chip, and it was unbearable to listen to. The project rs uses dual burr brown and also sports a tube output, so the sound is by far superior, yet not so terribly engaging. Another plus is the additional master clock, which I am also convinced will make the experience more enganging and precise.
3) The Mytek was recommended to me by my hihi-pusher, who of course sells the stuff. He is usually trustworthy in terms of equipment that plays musically as opposed to audiophile-like.

Unfortunately I will not have much chance to hear the different components, except for the Mytek that I will shy away from given your advice that it sounds fatiguing - which is my main problem with most digital sources.

Thanks for your input, appreciate you taking the time.

 

Also I really suspect the BlueSound to be a weak link in my system. The DAC sounds lightyears better through the USB input from my mac with Audirvana+... I also have a lab brick USB hub in the system to eliminate digital noise, and I use split USB cables that run the power separately.

 

Here's what the Onyx specs say:

Balanced Digital to Analog Converter
24 Bits Non Oversampling
Forward (FPGA) corrected
2 DAC'S per channel in differential mode​

As far as I can understand, this is the R2R version of the dual DACs in the Teac. I'm very happy with my Onyx into tube-hybrid amps, but I'm just a listener (jazz and classical), not a musician, so what do I know...

As @rlow said, Onyx USB is meh. S/PDIF coax or AES are better, but the best is I2S from a Metrum Ambre, which is what I have. Since I don't do MQA, I don't know if the Ambre>Onyx chain supports it.

 

And the Teac should to my eyes be very similar to the Esoteric N-01 network player and Esoteric G-02 master clock, which are vastly more expensive and under the same company.

 

The Ambre supports MQA over Roon, but I dont have a roon core as it is now... maybe worth considering though

 

But 4100 euro for the onyx, ambre and mqa bundle shipped to Denmark is just ridiculous.