Metrum Musette Impressions

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by MisterRogers, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    We really need to get a Gungnir Multibit and a Musette in the same room together, with some experienced listeners to evaluate....
     
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    My guess is it's more the Menuet that will be competitive with the Gungnir Multibit in terms of performance. Prices might be more comparable if Metrum wasn't a much smaller company (AFAIK).
     
  3. Jun

    Jun Friend

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    The musette vs Gungnir Multibit would be a good comparison.

    My guess is the musette will offer a similar amount of detail retrevial when the musette is upsampled.
     
  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I doubt it. Transient chips are 16-bit with around 1 LSB max INL/DNL, so perhaps closer to 15-bit performance. THD is higher too. With the Menuet and Pavane, you get the FPGA module and I believe paralleled modules, so accuracy and linearity, at least on paper/per measurements, seems much better. Would be closer to the 18-bit performance you get on the Gungnir Multibit. THD is still higher on Metrums regardless but might play less of a role in this case, and, honestly, might not matter at all for any of the DACs. Remains to be seen if THD affects detail retrieval in these cases.

    This is complete and utter guess work based only on experience with Gungnir Multibit, previous gen Metrums (totally different, I know), and some relatively limited experience looking at spec sheets and correlating/listening to whatever DACs and various chips inside I can get my hands on. I repeat, total guess work and could be totally wrong. Take it all with a grain of salt!

    I will be borrowing a Musette soon to hear for myself. Will only have memory of Gungnir Multibit to go off of, though. Will report back then. :)
     
  5. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    Exit stage left....
    be in touch once you get closer to your Musette demo, perhaps my Gungnir Multibit can make it's way to you for a bit?
     
  6. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    I don't doubt there's more tech in the Gungnir Multibit. But because the pricing is close (you can get a Musette for less then the Gungnir Multibit, but still similar). Its only fair to evaluate the two. I think many will prefer the Schiit, but not all...
     
  7. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

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    Hands should have his 'hands' on my Musette by this weekend. I A/B'd the Gungnir Multibit vs. Musette, and kept the Musette. Gungnir Multibit was sightly more detailed, but I'm finding I have a preference for Metrum's 'Transient' and the lively, dynamic, 'live' sound it produces.
     
  8. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I should have clarified in comments above that my guess was that Gungnir Multibit would be more detailed and resolving, not that the Metrums wouldn't have other subjectively better traits. Plus, there's a reason I tend to use non-oversampled DACs, so...
     
  9. Jun

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    I started liking the musette in NOS for certain music. It is more truthful to the recording. Compressed music, mp3s sound better in NOS. For the ultra high quality stuff NOS wins again, if your playing 24bit/96khz audio files there really is no need to upsample.

    Upsampling sounds horrible for .mp3 and music that have been recorded with dithering applied. Upsampling well recorded lossless music seemed to give it a more "live" feeling, but bad recorded music just made the mistakes more apparent. Good redbook 16bit/44.1khz seemed to benefit from upsampling. I currently upsample only 2x, 44.1khz to 88.2khz.

    edit: Pay attention to the treble region when you upsample, in nos the treble is a little recessed and dull, upsampling seems to make the treble sharper and detailed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  10. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    After listening and comparing directly against my Audial Model S, and the Gungnir Multibit based on memory, here are my thoughts on the Musette:

    1. Staging is probably the Musette's main weakness. It's a bit small, intimate, and up-front. The Model S has width and depth and possibly more air. The Gungnir Multibit is even better still, but only when paired with a good SPDIF source. That said, I almost always find individual elements and the stage as a whole to sound more 3D on non-oversampled DACs, and the Gungnir Multibit did have a bit more of that flat-plane soundstage characteristic to me, but probably one of the best I've heard for oversampling.

    2. Musette is certainly fast. Micro-dynamics are good. Edges are well defined and sharp in a good way. The Model S is a hair softer and less focused in this regard.

    3. The downside to the above is that occasionally the Musette starts to sound a bit rough around the edges. Both the Model S and Gungnir Multibit, latter when properly fed, sound a bit more organic and natural when it comes to timbre. Minor differences. They are all pleasant to listen to. No real nasties.

    4. Non-oversampling is going to mean a bit of a treble droop on redbook content. Musette is better about showing this LESS than the Model S, the latter which has a slightly sweeter quality in the treble.

    5. Counterpoint to the above, the Model S does have more extension and slam in the low registers than the Musette. The upside is the Musette might be a touch faster and tighter down low than the Model S. Gungnir Multibit seemed to have the best extension on both ends with low-end slam focused at the very last octave, and the Model S having more power in the next octave up. Musette sounds like it has the least amount of low end slam and power, which affects the sense of macro-dynamics as well, which is another weak area for the Musette. It almost reminds me of the Bifrost Multibit because of that.

    6. I have to say, the new Metrum Transient DAC modules are a BIG step up from the industrial chips in the previous generation. Without the FPGA, forward correcting module in the Musette, we're looking at 1 DAC module per channel, 16-bits, with about 1-bit LSB. THD is lower too than the previous gen, but still not absurdly low. I think this puts the modules alone in a similar performance realm as the TDA1541A in my Model S, albeit the 1541 might be a hair better on paper depending on the grade and production location/year (trust me, it matters). That says nothing about subjective differences and inherent qualities, though.

    Anyway, what I was getting at is that the Musette is much more resolving than any previous Metrum DAC I've heard before. I'd say it sits somewhere between Bifrost Multibit and Gungnir Multibit in this regard, as does the Model S. Resolving abilities seem similar between the Musette and Model S. NOTE: Often you will sacrifice that laser focused sense of detail retrieval and clarity you get with oversampling if you listen to a non-oversampled DAC. Yes, the Musette and Model S both have some of this trait, but really mitigate it. The Pavane almost ignores this trait entirely by having the positive NOS qualities combined with excellent resolving abilities, which I'd assume is due to the paralleled DAC modules and FPGA.

    7. Tone is really good. There's something about it that sounds a wee bit unnatural to me vs. the Model S, and the Gungnir Multibit can have a to-die-for tone with a good SPDIF source. I'm splitting hairs here, though. It really comes down the the Musette sounding slightly leaner than either and occasionally having a bit rougher around the edges sound vs. the Model S. This is almost all based on personal taste.

    Overall, I'm impressed with the Musette. We're talking big strides since Metrums first generation DACs. I would say the Musette is priced competitively given the relatively small scale company vs. the likes of Schiit, and it does offer a competitive non-oversampling DAC that I feel one could happily substitute in place of the Gungnir Multibit if that's more to their tastes.

    But, look...if you have the money, skip the Musette and go for the Menuet or Pavane. I think the paralleled DAC modules + FPGA (forward correcting wizardry) really pay off. When I heard @MisterRogers's WIP Pavane, it was really wonderful. Awesome staging and imaging, nicely improved sense of power and dynamics, excellent resolution, and yet that slightly sweet, 3D NOS sound. The Musette has some of that magic, but the Pavane is the real deal. I'm only guessing the Menuet is pretty close to the Pavane as well.
     
  11. Jun

    Jun Friend

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    I know it's like blasphemy for you, but did you try upsampling the musette?
     
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Nah, not enough time on hand right now for that, and I've done more than enough screwing around with upsampling on all sorts of DACs, including the old gen Metrums and the Model S. Save for maybe the filter in XXHighEnd, which I am too afraid to even try again due to the horrid UI, I have yet to find a combination of playback software and filter that sound all that good to me. In other words, I've done tests, and I end up preferring non-oversampling for a reason, tradeoffs and downsides be damned. That said, if you find an upsampling filter you like, non-oversampling kind of gives you a blank slate to find the sound you want via that method.

    Also my transport doesn't have any sort of upsampling available. :)
     
  13. Jun

    Jun Friend

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    You where right. I listen to the Musette only in NOS mode now.

    The Musette upsampled it seemed to bring about more details and resolution but it also made the sound feel artificial and unnatural to me. I prefer the natural sound over the artificial details.
     
  14. Jun

    Jun Friend

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    So what exactly does the forward corrected FPGA do in the menuet and pavane which the musette doesn't have?

    Does it allow those 16bit transient DAC utilize a higher bitrate? It seems to boggle me because to get true 24 bit you'll need 256 x 16 bit modules (doubling for each bit).

    On the OEM page, transient dac module 1 it says:
    So it says like "one bit DACs"
    So did they just hinted that they do some kind of delta sigma stuff with the forward FPGA?
     
  15. error

    error Friend

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    No, no delta sigma stuff.
    Quoting Srajan Ebaen from his Metrum Pavane review:

    “In ultra simplistic terms, our man splits his 24-bit data into two clusters. The first gets bits 1-12 as the most/more significant bits, augments them with empty bits below and processes this normally. Cluster two gets bits 13-24 as the less/least significant bits but moves them into its ladder DAC's top segment. This neat trick has them processed just like the first cluster. Once in the analog domain, our (sexist remark alert!) hotter half is attenuated back down to its proper loudness values. Only then is it recombined with the other half. And so our crafty Dutchman applies a temporary dynamic expander action in the digital domain to improve the low-level linearity of the D/A process which naturally wants to get less and less precise as recorded signal amplitude in the lower/lesser bits diminishes and gets mixed up with/in digital noise.”

    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/metrum/1.html
     
  16. Jun

    Jun Friend

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    The dac 2 modules are interesting and they already used it in the adagio. I think they will start using it in the other dacs soon, when they figure out how to mass produce it.

    According to metrum the dac 2 modules are: 2 x dac1 + fpga forward correction in one module.
     

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