Motu Ultralite Mk5 dropouts

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by DLomb89, Nov 15, 2021.

  1. DLomb89

    DLomb89 New

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Italy
    Hello people,
    I am a new user and I signed up to share my experiences in the hifi field.
    But I wanted to start by gathering your support on a problem that has recently arisen with my latest interface, the Ultralite Mk5.
    I state that it is a cool interface and the audio quality is much better than many other famous dacs ... in fact I think I have found my definitive solution, were it not for this damn problem of dropouts.
    In practice, occasionally and randomly the audio drops for about half a second (with the level indicator on the Mk5 indicating it).
    From a professional interface it seems absurd, especially since it has never happened to me with any other peripheral, even inexpensive.
    My setup is Dell Latitude 3500 laptop with WIndows 11 and usb connection to the Mk5.
    I have done any tests:
    -tested every buffer (including safety buffer) and sample rate
    - tried various playback software
    - changed usb cable
    - changed usb port
    - put powered usb hub
    -changed power supply
    - tried Windows Audio driver instead of ASIO
    - correctly set any power and energy saving options on Windows and on the bios
    - updated firmware, drivers and sw versions of everything
    - removed and reinstalled the drivers of Mk5 and relative CueMix5 sw
    - tried Win10 clean install (instead of 11)
    - applied all the advice given by Motu in the faqs relating to problems with Windows (disable Cortana, etc ...)
    I just need to try another PC, or maybe Mac, but at that point I might as well change the interface.
    Motu technical assistance has not been useful for now (in the sense that it has not directed me to anything new compared to what I have already tried) ... but we are in contact so let's see if they intend to solve the problem or not (especially considering that my Mk5 is under warranty).
    I've seen on other forums that I'm not the only one having problems on Windows, but none seem to have solved it ... which puts me off a bit.
    I don't want to abandon the Mk5, it's fantastic and unrivaled in my opinion.
    Maybe someone here can help me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  2. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Likes Received:
    6,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Home Page:
    Sounds like you checked everything. All I can say is that this interface is built for Windows 10 or macOS 10.10 or higher and not Windows 11. You can also trying a higher latency.

    None of us are going to know for sure. Check with who you purchased it from to see if they can be of any assistance. Sometimes they can contact their dealer rep, etc. It might also be a defective unit.

    But really none of us are going to know.
     
  3. DLomb89

    DLomb89 New

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Italy
    Thank you Azimuth for your feedback.

    I have already tried to put Windows 10 instead of 11, but nothing has changed.
    Regarding higher latency I didn't understand what you mean. How do I set it up?
    If you mean buffer, I have already tried all values including 4096.
    However, I am in contact with my salesman, who told me that he tries to hear from the distributor, as the owner of the company that deals with national assistance on behalf of Motu is dead and therefore is practically non-existent (what a bad luck).
     
  4. Gazny

    Gazny MOT: ETA Audio

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 11, 2020
    Likes Received:
    2,209
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    open sky
    I had issues with MOTU when I used usb decrappifers. ever since I simplified my usb it has been rock solid
     
  5. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    The problem is far more likely Windows 11 latency with delayed procedure calls.

    Use a latency monitor to check your win11 os:
    https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6944-latencymon.html

    brief how to use guide:
    https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/solving-dpc-latency-issues/#

    example of others bemoaning dpc latency much worse than win10:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows11/comments/pc77dy/windows_11_latency_is_so_high_that_it_effects/

    given you've tried win10 it may also be an issue with your dell 3500 bios.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Miss Information Miss Information x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  6. DLomb89

    DLomb89 New

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Italy
    Thanks guys for the answers.
    I specify immediately that I have no decrapifier, only direct connection.
    I checked with LatencyMon and ACPI seems to be the biggest problem ... but I have applied all the advice regarding this driver but its resource hunger remains. And LatencyMon always tells me that my system is subject to dropouts.
    Either way, this diagnosis is already a step up, so thanks @atomicbob
     
  7. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    Dell ACPI.sys can be a real PITA.
    Here is a link that is enlightening:
    https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...o-clicks/a7977dd5-6a52-4ee7-91bd-83180c21c1c2

    Scroll down and read reply by TheodoreMandylas especially.
     
  8. DLomb89

    DLomb89 New

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Italy
    Yes, TheodoreMandylas seems to know a lot about it.
    But there is one thing that I do not explain ... why do the other interfaces and DACs have no dropouts on my pc (with equal or less buffer)? Maybe Motu's drivers also have high processing time?
     
  9. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    The MOTU Ultralite supports 20 channels input and 20 channels output over USB. Most other interfaces and DACs are 2 channels output and 2 channels input if the interface has an ADC. Think about the bandwidth to support 20/20 vs 2/2. You might try limiting the number of channels in and out to the Ultralite in the routing setup.
     
  10. DLomb89

    DLomb89 New

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Italy
    Makes sense, but does it apply even if not all of these channels are used?
    I actually find the dropouts even with the banal two-channel playback, without having the rest used by any software or exposed to Windows (WDM). If there is a way to turn them off at the driver level I honestly ignore it.
     
  11. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    Changing number of USB channels in MOTU Ultralite mk4:
    UltraLite-mk4 routing matrix - annotated USB channels.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
  12. DLomb89

    DLomb89 New

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Italy
    @atomicbob you are very kind.
    But I'm afraid it's not valid for the Mk5.
    With the new CueMix5 the routing page has been lost.
    And I don't see anywhere else that setting to enable the number of channels.
     
  13. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    Wow! They took away the routing matrix feature!

    That feature was one of the reasons I acquired the Ultralite mk4. I will NOT be acquiring a mk5 as I view it as a definite downgrade.
     
  14. DLomb89

    DLomb89 New

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Italy
    I wouldn't want to be wrong, but I think the "MIX" pages in CueMix5 allow you to get the same results as the routing matrix.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,652
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    mk4 has a mix page in addition to the routing matrix. On the routing matrix page both the matrix and mix console may be scaled in channel number resulting in more or less complex setups.

    Reduced routing matrix (compare to the one in the post above):
    UltraLite-mk4 routing matrix redux.png

    Full mix console left side:
    UltraLite-mk4 mixer console left.png

    Mix console reduced from 20 to 2 channels:
    UltraLite-mk4 mixer console left redux.png
     
  16. DLomb89

    DLomb89 New

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2021
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Italy
    I'm not a very advanced user, but it seems to me that on the Mk5 all inputs can go to all outputs simultaneously and with independent levels and effects, all set through the mix pages.
    However Motu technical support has not provided me with any solution at the moment, but says that maybe they should test their products on different Windows environments, which makes me think that as of now they don't do it in such an extensive way.
    And I can also understand them since even Microsoft for example tests on virtual machines (with obvious limitations).
    As a user and customer, however, this is not admissible. The price we pay should include the test part and the reliability of the product at 360 degrees.
    Then in this case I understand that the problem is Microsoft and not Motu, but then don't claim that you have the lowest latency on the market if that's not entirely up to you...
     

Share This Page