Mr. Speakers AEON

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by mscott58, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Compared AFO (w/ and wo one felt sheet) and HD6XX-K (kiss+coin) this evening.
    True, AFO has some good traits of hd650 (perhaps due to sbaf's feedback to Dan? ;))
    But after a few hours of comparison, I found these two cans differed from each other more than expected. Not very different though. Final preference highly depended on recordings and music genres, even within myself. Also speculate dacs and amps will contribute a lot. Too many/much YMMV!

    Configuration:
    • PC(Foobar2000 WASAPI) > Gungnir Multibit > Taboo Mk4 (Lucid on)
    • Used XLR headphone out (AFO - stock xlr cable; 6XX - ve-clan cable)

    AFO wins:
    • Clearer and more resolving bass (entire bass region)
    • Slightly better macro-dynamics and slams, particularly for large-scale symphonies or concertos
    • Some wind instruments sounds more emotional (not very accurate though), for example oboe, horn, and euphonium
    • Slightly deeper head stage
    • Livelier expression of decays and trails
    • More engaging in most tracks

    6XX-K wins:
    • Sharper and more articulate vocal imaging, particularly with dance musics (surprising for senn..)
    • Better separation of midrange instruments
    • Slightly righter acoustic timbre, particularly for piano
    • Better micro-dynamics and plankton
    • Slightly wider head stage
    • Slightly blacker background
    • Slightly better expression of air

    Comment: Of course this is only sonic comparison. For non-sonic aspects, 6xx has absolutely invincible cost performance, while afo destroys 6xx in ergonomics (I personally feel this alone can account for price difference) :D

    My conclusion: These two cans are rather complementary to me. Worth keeping both.

    P.S. If compared to stock 6xx, AFO wins way more criteria imo.
     
  2. CoLdAsSauLt

    CoLdAsSauLt New

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    Another win for bald people like me to cope with their complexes :p

    And you might just as well take those glasses off while floating away on music with your eyes closed. Your boss might like it less though :p
     
  3. dropadred

    dropadred New

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    If I may, I am really curious, how do you find out the very differences after that amount of hours? Do you complement it with measurements? Or do you have other system?
     
  4. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Good question.
    No, neither measurements nor multiple identical products. .. therefore not science at all lol :D

    When I evaluate audios in general, I just use my listening notes, on which I write down subjective impressions and perceived scores (1-10) in several criteria (e.g. subbass expression) for the familiar tracks (e.g. Saint-Saens' symphony no 3, especially low organ notes). Then I compare my memos between day 1 and day 5.

    I admit a number of bias, for example memory bias, may affect this process. Also my mental/physical conditions may matter. But I don't bother.
     
  5. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    Does HD6XX have more 5khz emphasis than AFO? I've heard the 650 a couple of extended times, and I always remember it having very fleshed out if not emphasized lower treble. Snares really crack on it, while claps are really sharp.
     
  6. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    @TMRaven :
    I heard so. But it doesn't seem that (modded) 650 had particular peaks or emphasis around 5k. Felt like afo was somewhat recessed or dipped around 5k relatively. Not very sure if fr measurements can verify this or not.
     
  7. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    Ask and you shall receive:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Gruss Gott

    Gruss Gott Almost "Made"

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    I just got some Aeon Flow closed (gotta have closed for my use). My setup is: MBP > Tidal HiFi > Anker Powerline + USB cable > Mojo > Aeon flows ... I may add optical input on Friday, as I just found out that my HP jack might also be optical! WTF? Anyway, the other note is that I'm a total noob with my core experience being the last year using some B&W P7W streaming 320 google play via AptX. For the last few days I've been listening to the MBP via wired P7W, yesterday I added the Mojo which was an improvement, but not OMG.

    The Aeon on first unboxing were definitely a "wow these are nice", very premium. Not quite the B&W build in some parts, but whether that's for lightness or cost I don't know, but either way it's not a distraction. Overall first wear with no music is a comfy cushy WOW.

    First music is also a WOW - now I understand these terms like "staging" and "plankton"; everything is crisp and present and big and wide. The B&W are "pinched" in comparison and a lot of detail is lost. I also now understand "neutral" as the P7s can be so bassy the "bloom" overwhelms many songs. The first 3 minutes is like no HP I've ever heard in that the music is all around me and super expansive. wow. Buuuttttt ...

    On the Hmmmm side of things is the lack of bass with older songs like the B-52's. Granted the P7Ws were so crazy here that sometimes the bass overwhelmed the whole song and that was annoying, but these AFCs - with certain music / recordings - almost feel like they're missing the whole low end of the song. As for the pads, I definitely prefer without - they take away some detail and have other drawbacks while adding only some punchier mid-bass. and it's not that there's no bass, it just feels muted. I like every other thing, but the muted bass really takes enjoyment out of 80s stuff.

    On newer EDM like Bluetech's Enter the Lovely, wow, crazy detail, whoa. Above & Beyond's You Would from AnjunaBeats No 11 sounds super tight and crazy expansive, albeit just a touch too bright for me, I'm reaching for that Schiit Loki I don't have, but they're also not fatiguing, I could listen forever. Entrancing. EDM's dialed on these cans.

    Frank Sinatra's In the Wee Small Hours is a dream and feels like you're in the room rather than listening to a 70 year old recording. On Erykah Badu's On & On and Appletree, they sound much more neutral compared to the P7s which are so bassy they blow away the song, although there's a super bright mid-bass something in there that's a bit annoying. On Tidal HiFi staff "focus" mixes, they sound great, much like the EDM. On the long version of The Cult's She Sells Sanctuary, they sound pretty bright but also much more detailed than on any setup I've heard (which isn't many) so overall I'd say one of the best versions given the crappy nature of that recording. Terry Callier's You Goin' Miss Your Candyman definitely sounds "neutral" - much more clear, but also missing that little bass punch. Nicola Conte's Shades of Joy is crazy detailed and feels just right, if just a stitch bright. Isreal Kamakawiwo'Ole's Hawai'i '78 should never be missed and his haunting vocals sound stunning. Dream Koala's Earth is much like the other EDM, there's deep bass that hits around 2:10 that overwhelms the song on the P7s where here it's tight and detailed. The Wailin' Jennys Light of Clear Blue Morning is enchanting with no sharp edges.

    So let's talk about fan favorite, Massive Attack's Angel; interesting! Here the opening driving bass line is about as good as I've heard it, no bloom, and the whole song all of a sudden fits together. Personally I'm more of a fan of Teardrop which also sounds excellent, detailed, controlled, full, and everything in its place. So what about something like Nelly's Pimp Juice? Well, again, I'd called it "balanced": nice driving bass line that matches - not gonna vibrate the HPs off your head, but plenty of bass.

    AC/DC. wow. I had almost given up on anything not vocal or EDM, but Thunderstuck sounded great. The opening guitar and vocals in Highway to Hell sounded better than I've ever heard with the drums sounding tight and controlled. In the 90s I used to "roadie" for my buddy's band and we used to put a giant plexiglass barrier around the drummer in certain venues to control the sound - exactly how this sounded, well balanced I'd say. Nugent's Stranglehold also sounded great, tight guitars, drums sounded awesome, and tons of detail. Foghat's Slowride, sounds great. STP's Vasoline, wow, sounds better than I've ever it. So rock sounds great, very balanced.

    So overall, first impression is wow, these are nice, and I really like them but dammit! they're missing that little bass kick and a little bright - i'm almost instinctively reaching for that loki ... there's so much to like! but that missing little bass for now ...

    I'll give them some time to "break in" and see what happens.
     
  9. Gruss Gott

    Gruss Gott Almost "Made"

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    @Vtory given you have the ZMF Eikon, how would you compare the Aeon Flow Closed to the Eikon? I'm finding (on day 2) that the Aeon closed-back are lacking some bass via the Mojo, otherwise I love them. How would you compare the Eikons?
     
  10. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    Eikons and other ZMF products are compelling but I know ultimately that they are just too heavy for me to enjoy them long term. Shame really, maybe Zach will offer some lighter weight products in the future.
     
  11. Gruss Gott

    Gruss Gott Almost "Made"

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    Thanks Ice ... I'm just hoping for a bit more punch in the bass than the Aeons have right now. that said ...

    Overnight I ran the pink noise burn in stuff, and much of the morning. Earlier I had 15 minutes so I A/B'd B-52's Channel Z and I'll be damned if the "problem" wasn't as noticeable as yesterday. I didn't have enough time to make a call, but it felt much better. I did also quickly try Erykah Badu's On & On and it still had that super annoying knocky instrument that's downright piercing on the Aeons. That just might be a poor recording issue.

    Any and all advice is appreciated!
     
  12. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

    Staff Member Pyrate MZR
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    Additional/custom front damping can help make them sound warmer and thicker while addressing and minor midrange or treble issues. Pairing them with a warmer, bassier sounding amp helps too.
     
  13. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    @Gruss Gott Unfortunately my aeon was open type, and didn't hear afc..

    But generally speaking I like sub-bass reproduction of eikon more than any other totl cans I tried. To me a few decibels emphasis for 20-50hz is ideal, and eikon easily satisfied my need without EQing. AFO clearly had somewhat rolled-off in sub-bass, compared to eikon.

    I think maybe @Hands can answer to your question much better. He owns AFC and heard loaner eikon, also measured the two.
     
  14. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    This. Out of my home Lyr 2, the Aeon Closed has some pretty significant bass slam -- not as much as something like the LCD-X, but enough that only a real basshead would be bothered by the lack of bass; out of the Fulla 2 at work, it's much more subdued. (The Fulla also has other problems driving the Aeon, so not recommended for the purpose.)
     
  15. dropadred

    dropadred New

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    Oh, I see...I respect it, but frankly this kind of an evaluation of a sound change after some time just from your own way to asses it on the scale is ... . I will keep just a blank space as I do not want to start a fight, but me, personally would not believe my ears that much - you, me, everyone knows how those little bad boys can lie and perceive the very same thing so differently even one day after another; not even mentioning different weather can play a bigger role than "burn-in".

    You do not bother? Fine, but others may, then they come and take your word and evaluation for given and it starts to spread - now everyone will say - "Oh boi, you have to get those cans at least 30 years of burn-in -- bass will tighten and shake every bit of your body fat away, mids will start casting unicorns and highs will shave your beard".
     
  16. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    Yeah, man. When evaluating audio, you should NEVER trust your ears. What a rookie move.
     
  17. Gruss Gott

    Gruss Gott Almost "Made"

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    The AFCs via the mojo (TOSLink s/pdi) sound great with Bootsy Collins' new album World Wide Funk - nice wide soundstage and plenty of bass. What's really odd is that, this being the case, I was thinking my P7Ws wired would sound all muddy which is usually the case when AFC have lots of bass ... but they sounded great. The AFCs, as usual, had WAY more detail with the P7Ws having the pinched soundstage, but otherwise the sound was very similar.

    First tracks I've found that sound similarity on ...
     
  18. dropadred

    dropadred New

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    I see you fancy a bit of a sarcasm. I feel actually otherwise, you should enjoy what you hear, but not trust it and your memory to approximate some past listening sessions and details about a sound to use it to asses some fictional burn-in syndrom sound alterations, should you?
     
  19. Skyline

    Skyline Double-blindly done with this hobby

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    It's not so black and white. Some burn-in statements are nonsense and others are not. Have you seen measurement differences in the HD650 after the pads compress? That's not fiction.

    A person can only describe what they hear. As the reader, you can take that for what it's worth. That's why you read a wide variety of impressions and use your own brain (and ears) to develop your own thoughts.

    My objection to your post is your narrow-minded attitude and inclination to tell someone else that their subjective impressions are nonsense, because you are the possessor of ultimate audio truth and knowledge.

    I get where you're coming from. Really. But don't hide behind the whole notion that you'll leave your thoughts as blank spaces so as not to start a fight, when your entire post revolves around tearing down someone else's impressions.

    There's a name for that, but I'll just leave some blank spaces here instead...
     
  20. dropadred

    dropadred New

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    The first thing you were writing about - that is something different - we talk drivers burn-in, not pads wear. It is like some fanatic comes and say, how his trilion dollar-worth-of-unobtanium-made RCA cable has burned-in in a resolving nirvana and then come and say the difference comes from speaker burn-in (so not directly our subject, but related component in a chain)....oh, wait, such a bad example...I tried, I promise.

    Now...you take me wrong, let's take pads as an example - it is absolutely OK to swap back and forth and come with a conclusion and post it somewhere - that is absolutely fine, but coming back and assessing something with a respect to hundreds of hours is erroneous, because it relies on questionable perception of a long-lasting change, thus my reaction if there was any sort of a complementary measurement to show what words try to express - that is what randos (like me) should take from such assessment. Don't you think?

    I sincerely believe more you try to assess various kinds of changes (whether some short-term or long-term) you will learn to not rely on pure subjective aspect as it can lie. And it will most certainly. Not in a bad way, but in such it should be a subject of decision if there is not a need for some additional drive...like a 4EP (4-eyes principle), like journalist have more than just one source - why? I reckon it is obvious.

    And the worst thing is when someone gets it but does not bother at all - wtf? Then just enjoy listening and do not try to write something smart about sonic differences coming of a burn-in...


    P.S.: I am sorry, I know I do not make the best first impressions here, but I am sick from some practices in audio (I mentioned a terrible cable example above - that is one of the main afflicted areas of the audio with such an irresponsible subjectivity...) and I just cannot sit idle.
    My ... addition could offend (personally) the very person, as ... in your post could offend me, this way I can spend all the evening guessing - it is wonderful!
     

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