Mshenay expresses his deep love for garage 1217 amps and related miscellania

Discussion in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' started by Mshenay, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Stop buying tubes. I'd rather have one better tube amp and a couple well thought out tubes, then a crap amp with drawer after drawer full of tubes. Don't fall for tube nervosa, you'll be better off in the long run...
     
  2. HitmanFluffy

    HitmanFluffy Hoping to see real genitals someday!

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  3. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Aaaahh, like a smack of fresh air, thank you!
    Some of you lucky bastards have certainly had a chance to compare totl class A-B amp to a great push-pull tube amp.
    Are there similarities regarding staging, tonality and subtleties?
     
  4. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Dude @Mshenay wtf man. there's no such thing as down votes or upvotes or notches on a belt. There's only noise and not-noise and you keep producing the former against (I hope) your better judgment and the request of those around you.

    You also missed merrick's point which was certainly not to open a can of Vali v Ember worms. And just to be clear, no one dislikes your posts because you like the ember. I think I speak for everyone when I say that no one gives a flying f**k which amp you like or not. It's this "maximum autist engaged" mode of posting that you can't seem to shake off.

    Otoh in case this is fun for folks, I'll move it to a new thread so the party can continue there.
     
  5. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    I've heard the Ember 2, its perfectly fine for what it is, an entry level amp. @Mshenay enjoy it, you should.

    Every time you're tempted to buy it another tube, just stick $20 in your underwear drawer. Then before you know it, you'll have Mjonir 2 money (shilled right there)...
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  6. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    THIS
     
  7. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    My point wasn't to slag on the Ember or praise the Vali. You're missing the forest for the trees if that's what you got out of my post.
     
  8. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Since this is in a different thread I'll respond as we're just shootin' the shit now.

    I disagree with this. Mid-fi gear can get you "there" too, which is enjoyable music reproduction for the user. Don't forget, your "there" is different than many others' and doesn't make their's wrong.

    "Perfect" playback is a pipe dream, that's no secret. So is unobtanium gear to most users which is my point. Mid-Fi and Hi-Fi are not always perceived solely on performance and you should know this as well. Price needs to be discussed in the same sentence because otherwise you end up with the Vali 2 and DNA Stellaris both as HiFi. It's not really a term at all, it's a $/performance ratio. At what point is it Mid-Fi vs Hifi?

    Forgive me as this point completely evades me. If we're talking about DIY endeavours or "my buddy can build me that same amp for 1/4 of the price" then that point is moot because of course someone who buys parts and builds it themselves is going to have a superior piece of kit. I realize that builders exist because I am in direct talks with one to build me a preamp using top of the line output caps and various other tweeks that would cost a small fortune if done by Conrad Johnson et al.. Not everyone is comfortable with this nor is there is a try-it-and-return without a sufficient lose. For many, this is too big of a risk unless they have deep pockets or enjoy HELOCing their life.

    I don't think anyone is against the Ember being considered a mid-fi piece of gear because of its performance regardless of tube choices. But that doesn't mean someone's opinion and enjoyment is completely invalid which as someone looking in, is exactly how it looks. Wrong thread for that discussion? Certainly. The best advice was already given which is don't spend $1,000 on tubes when you could get a $1,000 amp instead with better guts.

    I am honestly all ears. Three system configurations with new pricing with a dealer or direct sale: $1,000, $5,000, $10,0000.

    It's not my intention to be combative here but rather have an interesting discussion as I most certainly don't know it all. I also realize I probably come off as a prick to someone with "Friend" status but you have thick skin so I'm not concerned.
     
  9. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    No. This is the theory of audio relativism and it is a total cancer designed to a) not hurt peoples feelings when they own mediocre gear and b) allow reviewers and the rest of the audio industry to pass off mediocre gear as a matter of "taste". There is always an objective standard to aim for and doing so is preferable as even if it is not obtainable that pursuit can trickle down to what is. If you want to live under a rock and cope with sub-par gear (for the money or otherwise) be my guest, simply do not presume to give anyone else advice or recommendations while you're at it. The only time taste becomes a factor is when deciding which compromises are preferable at each price point. This does not mean you can't build a system with fewer overall compromises than someone else given the same budget. Audio is not like food or wine tasting, do not confuse it as such.

    Only a complete dunce obsessed with the approval of his peers and/or e-peen would think of things this way. Who says the Vali 2 and Stellaris can't both be considered hi-fi? You do remember what the "fi" in hi-fi stands for right? It's not price.

    Why would you buy new from a dealer? You are automatically adding a 50% mark-up or more to every purchase. You may as well give me the real budget of $500, $2500 and $5,000 as that is the performance you are asking for buying from a dealership. The notion is ludicrous. Buy used, if you are not comfortable buying used it is because you lack the knowledge of what sounds good and what isn't worthwhile simply by assessing it on paper. Of course you can't know "for sure" without hearing it but you can get a pretty good idea that avoids wasting money. Patience is another virtue of system building. You can gain knowledge without spending your own money by taking advantage of the community, attending meets, listening to the systems of others and participating in loaners. If you are still uncomfortable losing $100-200 on reselling a component that didn't turn out to be all that but gave you experience then you are in the wrong hobby. I suggest woodworking or figure duck painting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  10. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    This.

    With the Vali 2 the Siemens E288CC and the Siemens Halske E88cc are plenty. The music sounds right and I have some other tubes but these two will do mainly. This hobby is costly. Once you find that tube that gets it right, enjoy the music.

    People have opinions. Okay. The music sounds awesome and that is what matters.
     
  11. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    I'll say this only because this is broken off of the real thread, but be forewarned Sansui's sound might have evolved more then any other vintage amp manufacturer out there. They went from a warmer "HD 650"-ish sound in the 60's to a "HD 600"-ish sound in the late 60's to very early 70's to a more accurate and well staged "HD 800"-ish sound later in the 70's

    And even that analogy, is a bit too over generalized on the subject. Just be careful thinking a manufacturer will stick with a "house sound", they won't always. But there are some that do more so. I'm a bit of a Yamaha fanboy myself, and they have stuck with their sound over the decades way more....

    Just be careful is all I'm saying, but you should chase that vintage stuff again. It's real fun...
     
  12. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    I deleted my previous response in favour of moving forward to something more productive.

    I'm still very curious and interested in the stereo systems you would build at those price point. If there's great sound at an appropriate price point I'm not opposed to realizing I could have done better.
     
  13. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    Please post whatever it is you were going to say. I assure you it would've been much more productive to read more of your flawed reasoning than a passive-aggressive message from fear of getting more dislikes.

    You seem to have missed my point entirely as it was not to spoon-feed you cookie-cutter system builds at different price points. I have no idea what your system is as it exists now and that is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. My point was two-fold: a) people may get stuck with mediocre components due to a lack of knowledge and in turn perpetuate others to make those same mistakes instead of learning and b) headphones are a compromise and most headphone gear is inherently poor value. Even cheap active monitors dump on most headphones in most elements of sound reproduction.

    Not all good sound is "unobtanium" and laziness is not an excuse for ignorance. I listed some methods by which you can learn what's good without spending your own money.
     
  14. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    You need a monocle.
     
  15. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    People who are as disappointingly stupid as you are why I can barely recognize this site these days. Best of luck.
     
  16. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    @HitmanFluffy Yup, had better things to do than follow this thread all day yesterday, I'm honored that I became notirous enough to merrit a thread named after me, though Garage 1217 doesn't desrve the negative attention I've drawn to my self.

    Relativism will always exist as compromise is for now an un avoidable reality, what ever standard exists today isn't perfect, as as we strive closer to perfection there will always be compromises, but seeing as we are inatley imperfect we will never reach perfection and realitivity will continue, as I imagine that the BEST system you've each heard can and will be eclipsed by something else in the future. But those my thoughts, the pursuit of perfection is a endless pipe dream, finding the compromises you can live with at each price point is really what it all boils down to imo, I love exploring that very concept, and I've enjoyed reading over all your posts too. I won't debate the definition of audio terms as they change from communitie to communitie, but it's good to get a refresher of how such terms are understood here

    The ENTIRITY of what this thread contains from me was targeted at the wrong auidance, I got too worked up by some one else's "flexing" and allowed such actions to edge me on, not my proudest moment but so long as I'm not banned I'm sticking around, you guys don't care what MY aim is and I as much as I'd like to be understood and accepted... it's not why I'm here

    @msommers that's awesome your having some one build an amp for you! @k4rstar is correct, buying new is for suckers honestly. The schiit Etir is the only "new" thing I've paid sticker price for over the last few years, Head Fi was nice it taught me to buy low and sell low, never sell for profit in these communities and you'll find all things level out in the end, maybe I've been lucky to always break even in the end

    Still it's harder to attend meets when you live in the middle of now where. Every meet is a minimum of 4 hours drive from where I am, sometimes it's cheaper to skip the meet and hope onto the loaner programs, but loaner programs take work to get into as well, nothings free and everything has a cost.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  17. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    Yes buying used is a good way to buy-and-try, up to a point. I don't mind being out the shipping on bigger stuff or a couple hundred dollars every once in awhile. However, the items I've bought new are expensive (to me) and like having warranty for a piece of mind. Moreover, the opportunistic discounts I've received mean that if I sell it's such a minimal loss I don't care. In one case on a $5,000 amp I lost all of $35. Thank you shitty Canadian dollar!

    The personal problem for me is buying used stuff that is either quite a few years old or very expensive unless I can test it thoroughly myself, which is a luxury I seldom have. I've never bought a new car in my entire life but you bet your buns most of them had at least some warranty left and a professional 3rd party inspection :)

    Like you, meets are basically nonexistant which means flying somewhere (cha Ching). And yep loaner programs are tough to get into so options become even more limited! You just keep reading opinions and reviews, whomever they belong to, and form a personal consensus.
     
  18. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    since this thread has devolved into "related miscellania"

    I 100% feel you on the need for a warranty, purchased a iBasso PB2 in December of 2013, it died on me this year. Seeing as at the time it was my ONLY portable amp, and I had no way to listen to my HM 901 without it, I purchased a Pico Power NEW and paid the $35 for an additional warranty, then to make it even better I traded away my TH X00 so I could have a back up for my back up, thankfully there was enough research on the Pico that I bought with confidence,.

    had the same issue with my HM601, bought used 16-17 months and it died, thankfully I had a few portable loaners to work through while I figured out how to fix it, and in the end I ponied up $90 for my iRiver H140, used an in minty condition! Which came in super handy, as I can run it right into my NFB10ES and that entire rig, even better I JUST figured out today my HM901 can run COAX into my NFB10ES2 as well... Plus I always have my Behringer UCA 202 as a FINAL last resort, I'm a big fan of redundancy, I have a primary and secondary tube for my self, just in case my daily driver dies. The great thing about buying used is the price I have to pay for a "warranty" can be routed into having a secondary back up, then I've spent the same amount of cash but I've heard two things! Compromises compromises,

    as for how to get loaners, that's tricky. Trust takes time, been at this since 2012 and I'm just NOW getting stuff in the higher price brackets, an that's only on Head Fi, though I wasted a lot of money buying less than optimal stuff, but I had fun tried to learn something about something, but patience pays it's due diligence after a while. An I enjoy it, nothings better than getting a message from some rando about how much he's enjoying his new "whatever" that he/she bought after reading something I wrote!

    Though 2018 will be the year I learn how to build and hopefully repair my own equipment, audio's my passion... a necessity for my sanity, an It's something I need to be able to maintain for my self. Hate relying on others for anything, though a good working relationship is worth while! Really the entire DIY community has always been enjoyable for me, almost every conversation I've had with those guys has been a real blast!
     
  19. Dino

    Dino Friend

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    That sounds familiar...
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    Beautiful picture, I can imagine it's pretty un practical to buy doubles of a system in that price range. Well at least build quality should be impeccable up at the top, less of a need to be redundant.

    Oh I read something interesting here today,

    All of that sounded a bit familiar, and about an amp I was encouraged to upgrade to...

    I understand that I made my case in entirely the WRONG thread, but good to know I'm not entirely crazy though. At least there's one other friend who feels the need to make the same point I did, albeit to the right audience in the right place

    Moving back on target it sounds like even If I get that amp... I'm still going to need to roll tubes or get something better than stock tube to gain the upwards of 2.5x improvement in technical performance and to release the most of the Mjolnir's Potential,

    so apparently I'm back to needing to buy better tubes... If I want to upgrade to the Mjolnir I can start rolling in smaller 9Pins to use in my existing amp so I can transfer them into a Mjolnir or save up for amps that accept 6sn7s, I frankly get better improvements with Octals than I do 9pins, so I guess the Dragon Inspire HA 1 and the Liquid Glass are options I have. The Liquid Glass in particular takes two 6sn7s, an honestly most "matched" pair's I've seen online aren't matched as close as I'd like. When I'm ready to drop $2000 on an amp I'll be at a point to match my own tubes, and save some cash buying them one at a time. People like to get crazy stupid when they sell "matched" pairs
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017

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