My Topping EX5 Review

I am @liu from ASR and got banned in this discussion.
OK, fine. A month later I registered a new account and posted a Topping EX5 review, and got banned immediately after posting, with zero reason given.
Here's the review copied in verbatim ---- as you will soon see, I am not bashing/criticizing anything.
There is zero negative info about Topping I conveyed in the review. ASR must be mad at banning me.
several users noticed my review before I was banned, and they were wondering why the review disappeared.
Well, all that I can tell them is ASR is a madhouse that I cannot understand.

Anyway. Here I am, finding a new platform to allow me to speak openly and freely.


--- my original Topping EX5 Review. Originally posted on ASR.


I just bought the Topping EX5 and got it today. here's my take.

A few month ago I emailed Topping's boss and JohnYang, asking for a device that is

1. combo unit with DAC XLR output and headphone out. For HP out, just use the L30 circuit.
2. low power. use switch power supply so it won't produce a lot of heat. sleep mode should not consume > 0.5W.
3. use single ES9038Q2M and achieve good jitter result
4. small. no desktop clutter, no cable management issue.
5. no MQA shit
6. no traditional ugly topping display.
7. has negative gain for IEM users.
8. <$400

and I can see EX5 implements part of them. Thanks Topping.

Analysis:

1. Topping device does not use a switch power supply that produces both +15V and -15V rails like their competitor SMSL does. So it makes it very hard to deliver -15V rail in a cheap way. On Premium devices they could use premium components such as larger inductors/discrete DC-DC converters, etc. However on this cost saving device they can't. So they just use discrete charge pump followed by a tps5430 to step down into -12.3V.

No, this is not a measurement error. On the PCB I clearly see the feedback resistors are 9.1k and 1k so 1.221*10.1 = -12.33V. So you have a +15V / -12.33V rail for all op amps and headphone amplifier.

I'm not saying they are doing it wrong. but you see who the product targets. In the end you get what you paid for.

2. There's no premium grade components. You won't find things like OPA1612. All op amps in the signal path are LM4562.
LM4562 is not a rail to rail op amp. so with a -12.33V negative rail it would deliver even lower output voltage.
Also, based on my measurement of XLR output and HP out, the power supply is a bit noisier than I expected.

3. The DAC chip is powered by, you guess it, an LM4562 op amp. No ES9311 (which is usually used as power supply chip in ESS designs) is used. The op amp also serve for bias input for LPF op amp. In a classical op amp based power supply, to get a stable voltage without ripple usually zener diode is used for voltage reference. Not here. Usually to do a linear power supply a BJT is used with the op amp to supply more current. Not here. so I'm quite surprised one piece of LM4562 has enough current to support two DAC chips + bias input in a stable way.

Later I saw a PCB photo of Topping D90SE. the 9038Pro is powered by two pieces of OPA1612. OK...

4. The signal path is interesting. works like the following:




1) DAC differential outputs to LPFs using LM4562.
2) differential outputs from the LPFs go into a LM4562 for summing
3) The LM4562 in stage 2 is used with a TPA6120A2 and form a nested feedback composite amplifier. The architecture is exactly the same as the Topping L30. It's just one chip for both L and R, while in L30 you have two buffers.
4) There's another LM4562 which gets the HP out and inverts it.

Why this is interesting? Well. For rear XLR output. it gets the XLR + phase signal from the class AB headphone amplifier discussed in 3). and the - phase signal is from the inverting signal of a regular op amp 4).
Also more interesting is there's no separate op amp for the RCA output. they share the same headphone amp output.

So for people use XLR output, the + and - signal is getting from chips for different purposes. Also for people who connect XLR and RCA simultaneously, remember they are powered by the same buffer.

In reality maybe it's fine --- After all TPA6120A2 has a lot of power, and can power RCA + XLR simultaneously without any issues. The capacitive load issues (if your speaker/preamp/amp has AC coupled input) may also be fine thanks to the zobel network used in the L30 architecture. But just something you need to be aware of.

5. The last disappointment is from the Jitter performance. In my measurement jitter is quite poor. I wonder why topping was not applying their D10B into this product.

Overall Topping delivers a product in a good price tag. They cut a few corners and able to sell it for $350 but can still get plenty of profit.

I would recommend them further improve this product by
1. using better power supply that can output +/- rails directly. this won't cost more.
2. reduce DAC chip to one. Save more cost.
3. kill MQA. Why would one need it?
4. solve the jitter issue.

I haven't do stability test though. Will report back after a month of using it.

 

Hey @liufeng and welcome!

You can introduce yourself here:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...rs-introduce-yourself.17/page-202#post-352468

Also check:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/what-is-sbaf-10-articles-for-behavior.5555/



I was reading that topic and it's a shame that another review that shows a product flaws (or shortcomings) gets removed like that...
Anyway John Yang said that you were spreading misinformation and had already used other accounts and that's why the ban occurred.

Glad to have you, and your reviews, on board.

 

> I was reading that topic and it's a shame that another review that shows a product flaws (or shortcomings) gets removed like that...

I don't think i said anything negative ---- all I said is it's a cost saving device, and people get what they paid for.

I did the teardown and everyone can see if my points are accurate or not.
If there's something wrong in my analysis i'll be happy to correct.
Deleting my post means they want to hide something from the users.

 

Yeap I even changed my comment to characteristics Instead of flaws.

 

John said
> All the said stuff are 20% truth 80% lie.

ok, the circuit/teardown is there. tell me which is the 80%. otherwise he's just talking bs.

everyone makes mistakes. i tried my best (both intention and measurement equipments) to calibrate its performance, figure out the Ex5 circuit and understand how it works. I may miss something. Lemme know and I'll improve my review. Saying my contents are 80% lie is just bs. Deleting my content is surely hiding something they don't want their user see.

regarding the jitter measurements, amir/wolf's measurements also show it has a less ideal jitter performance, especially compared to their d10B, and is mentioned in my review as well.


Anyway, I believe the users deserve to know what they bought.
And I tried my best to share my findings to others who are interested.
So I think I've done a good job already.

also John said
> The ban has little to do with what he said. Formally banned member can't make a new account and come back. You may ask moderators for policies.

well on this post moderator said i voluntary asked to delete my account so technically i was not banned?
they are just contradicting themselves. LOL

 

I will have to leave the technical details to someone more knowledgeable than myself but I would like to know what parts are the 80%.

 

OK now john tried to personally attach me by identifying all my accounts but he failed. At least one account he listed was not mine.
If you do the fact checking multiple things are wrong. for instance the account ppp@ did not mention he's a EE student.
also john said I'm a Chinese living in China bashing all Chinese products. and the moderator tries to imply I am one of Topping's competitors. Well, this is a perfect way to criminalize someone but it doesn't make sense, right? Why would a Chinese competitor bashing all Chinese products?
Now everyone who want to discuss me further will get banned --- why they are so afraid of me?
Clearly ASR people are going mad.

 

So he and john believe ppp=yue=liu=feng=ppbk is the same person and is from SMSL, who is Topping's competitor, and is here to attack topping.
OK this theory makes sense.
But why did liu@ post a serious SMSL DAC's bug (3rd harmonic one) and severely damage SMSL's reputation?

Same also to John's attempt to identify all (supposedly) my various other accounts.
Some of them actually do not belong to me.
He must be thinking all people against him or Topping are the same person.
Anyway, It's fun to watch those stupid people talk nonsense. Let them continue.

 

We also have had our share of trolls, haters and individuals with low integrity and they didn't last here.
In the end of the day what matters to us is how you behave here. Be a good, productive member, that follows the rules, and we'll be thankful.

 

> so you were the person who found the parts substitution on the SMSL M500 DAC where they swapped the OPA1612 to the LM49720 part?

Right.

> Instead members like Veri attack you with nonsense, like how you were able to receive this unit so quickly. Which makes no sense since you live in Japan (I confirmed your whereabouts from your IP - just to be sure) and the EX5 is readily available on Ebay for SpeedPAK ship from China to the USA.

Getting a device from China is super quick --- Japan and China are just around three hours flight apart. Just order in the morning on aliexpress, and the dealer usually will send the product on the same day afternoon. the flight usually arrives in midnight, and you can usually get it the next day afternoon, if you live in the greater tokyo or osaka area. It's that quick.

Analyzing Topping's device is super easy for me as well. Their products are cheap feeling (though sold premium) and circuits are never complex. With basic knowledge you know where to put the multimeter probe on, and usually within half an hour you can get the full analog and power supply parts of the circuit out.

Oh their pcbs are low quality and they don't even clean their solder flux, which makes it harder for the multimeter probe to contact the solder points reliably. Otherwise I could even had analyzed the circuit much quicker.

> Are you certain about the offset voltages for the bipolar power supply? Can you measure and confirm with a voltmeter?

I first measured the voltage with my multimeter. I was astonished that it shows -12.3V and thought maybe I got a faulty device. Then I tried to analyze the circuit and found my measurements was not wrong. They intentionally did that.


> We also have had our share of trolls, haters and individuals with low integrity and they didn't last here. In the end of the day what matters to us is how you behave here. Be a good, productive member, that follows the rules, and we'll be thankful.

I won't come here very often. Just to contribute one more data point about what ASR really is. That's it.

 

This was quite a good read, OP was a hero for exposing that issue on the SMSL DACs in the past. Had no clue it was same guy that showed how shit the Topping EX5 is.

 

I missed that? what happened? which SMSL was it?

Your post was a great read, you should come more often!

 

I have a Topping E30 and I actually like it. I bought the DAC just to screw around with it and then I was probably going to resell it. I chose it because it has AKM and no Bluetooth, no MQA, and no XLR. I use a vintage amp so I don't need XLR and I didn't want a DAC where RCA takes a back seat. (Yes, RCA can measure/sound good with some balanced DAC's)

What surprised me is the E30 actually sounds better than my old Logitech Transporter, my primary DAC. It's more detailed than the Transporter yet it pretty much has the same amount of warmth...that's the part I was not expecting.

A couple years ago I tried the Topping D50 and I didn't like that one at all. It was just too anemic sounding. Then I bought the RME ADI-2 (V1) DAC and although it sounded a lot better than the D50, I thought the treble had an overpowering nature to it.

So it's weird that I've (for now) settled on the E30. I have not tried any Schiit DAC's yet.