Nearfields for audiophile listening?

I like those genelecs too personally. One I preferred the most when I looked around playing with tiny monitor speakers. I wouldn't mind using those as tv speakers or a bedroom setup if space was an issue.

 

The Heil's are really crappy. Other AMT implementations can rock though.

 

I'm looking with gathering intent at a small set of Genelecs for my desk/den. Based on my usage scenario which is near-field I don't think I need anything bigger than the 8020s and a small sub. The 7050 would give me the option to go to surround later if I wanted. 2x8020c and the 7050 sub would cost about $1500 more or less.

I could up the ante and opt for the smallest SAM System, which would be 2x8320s running 50w+50w vs the 8020's 20w+20w, and the 7350 sub at 150w vas 70w along with the calibration mic and Genelec Software allowing for automatic and manual calibration of the monitors. The monitors are the exact same dimensions as the 8020 and 7050,so there is no difference from a space perspective.

So, $700 extra for the SAM mic and software, external volume control and double the output wattage.

That's kind of making sense to me...but I'm just not sure how necessary the GLM calibration software really is.

 

It depends on your listening habits. If you like higher SPL's, then more power makes sense.

Room compensation DSP can make a lot of difference, if it's well done. I haven't researched too much how Genelec implements their measurements.

 

Genelec DSP sounds pretty good. Discriminates source fairly well. You'll hear It when Yggdrasil takes place of its inner dacs. I am usually against dsp for my own listening, but in case of portable monitors I'm willing to accept the compromizes for the sake of tonality and clarity.

Regarding tiny Genelecs these are fine for behind the desk listening, for mid-field these are going to lack in power.

 

Sounds like a good option to have, then. I'm going to do some digging to see if there are any devils in the details.

 

OK, I'm reaching some conclusions here and reversing my opinion. Even though it gets good reviews, the more I think about it the less appropriate the SAM system seems from an audiophile perspective. It would effectively negate the upstream chain as it does its own AD, DSP, DA conversion and amplification. There'd really be little point in doing more than doing direct digital AES XLR out to SAM monitors, as this way you do the fewest AD/DA conversions. And apparently there's no way to bypass the DSP either.

And with that all the cool Schiit goes out the window.

I get that from an industry perspective the AD/DA stuff realistically just needs to not suck and be relatively transparent, so these work really well for the demands placed on them. But for audiophool fun, they miss the boat. Kind of stupid not to have seen that coming, but that's how we learn, I guess.

With new Schiit coming in the pre- and amp space soon I think it's time to do a little wait and see.

 

Even though they might get the speaker frequency response tuned right to the dot, I feel that the additional AD/DA conversion found on some of these self power studio monitors might destroy/alter badly the music timing coherence(phase response, sound imaging) more than anything else since you are dealing with additional digital filters and dsp delays etc.

 

This is not the sort of thing I usually say, lol... but I really think that it is listening, rather than thinking or feeling, that counts with this stuff.

Somehow, I too feel uncomfortable with an extra AD/DA conversion stage, just as I feel uncomfortable with stuff like cable adapters. If I had ever spent a schiit-load of money on a DAC, Schiit or otherwise (there are some pro-audio boxes I used to really fancy) then, putting the signal through AD/DA again would be leaving me wondering why I'd spent the cash previously. It might even prove the point that there was no point, and that is dangerous ground for audiophiles, and even for audiophiles-in-recovery, as I claim to be. In fact, no DAC required: digital input.

I've heard Genelec speakers with digital input and room-correction software. It was at at a hifi meet, some years ago. Hotel conference room, not exactly wonderful acoustics, but they sounded good. Damned good. Possibly better than anything else we heard that day (possibly more expensive too, at least in this country). But here's the stupid thing, and I'll always regret it: they played them to us room-corrected (the process takes a few seconds) and did not not give us a before/after demo. I can say that Genelec speakers sound damn good (too me: even I believe one can be absolutely subjective with speakers*) but I can't say for sure how much was the room correction.

They did show off the software. Yes, an initial room correction sweep takes only a few seconds, but there is a heap of stuff to tweak, should one feel the need. I think this was more than five years back: they might have moved on even further since then. Need[ed] a Windows computer. A problem for me, but probably not for many here. Heck, if I was buying at that level, I'd probably have a dedicated box to feed the speakers!



*Actually, being studio monitors, the idea is supposed to be transparency, so the argument would be are they or aren't they, rather than personal-subjective-flavours stuff. Of course, even if they are, studio-transparent is not the "flavour" that is going to be what everyone wants anyway.

 

@Thad E Ginathom, your post is a revelation/awakening.

Maybe it's time for some of the over-addicted SBAF audiophiles to sell their fancy mega bucks equipment(FPGA Digital Transports, multibit dacs, class A amps, dds reclockers, audiophile rubidium clocks, beryllium coated speakers) and just use Genelacs+SAM with it's digital input with a simple windows based intel nuc or somekind.

 

HaHa... Maybe it is. But will we? I don't think the manufacturers need to loose any sleep yet awhile!

(and me, well, I'm out of this race due to bad hearing, and have simplified my system accordingly. Thrown away the wish list too. But it is a small silver lining to a black cloud: I'd rather have my hearing back!)

 

A bake-off would certainly be entertaining, if not revealing!

We have little Genelec representation here, it's cheaper and easier to get them via Thomann than trying to source internally, so getting an audition next to say a competent LS50 stack is pretty damn unlikely. I wonder if I could rent some?

Another mild consideration is resale - SAM stuff has a restricted market if you decide you want out or up.

 

Currently I'm more bothered by the self-noise (hiss) my Eve's have in my quiet room than the A/D it makes. Wonder how much that masks details??

I could probably sell my Mutec/Gungnir Multibit/NFB1-AMP stack and simply get Jotty with the interdal DAC. That would be a great desktop solution. But eh I'll amuse myself and try to hear some good non-hissing passive setup first..

 

While I have a limited experience, living at Genelec's homeland. They are soo popular here amongst hifi, ht, and studio people and certainly keep their worth much more than some fancy-schmancy hifi speakers that noone has heard of and drop 3x value out the door.

 

If I'm correct, typical powered monitors internal amps will be running full blast, and volume control is done by attenuating the source - at least that's how the analog Genelec volume control works. That would explain the hiss...I'm not sure if SAM also has the amps cranking and uses DSP or what, but the volume control works via the GLM system. Some analog Genelecs do have individual volume controls on each monitor, but that's a pain in the ass at best.

One should be able to get a lower noise floor with passives as you're only amping as much as necessary to get desired output.

 

Only a single point measurement? That sucks.

 

Genelec does single or multi-point (4 I believe). I have to imagine the single point demo is slicker .

 

Four is servicable, but still less than I'd like it to be. I've done some testing and 24 points yielded +/-2.5dB variation between measurements. Upping that to 70 points bumped variation down to under +/-0.5dB.

 

I'm still in search of some budget nearfields. I just don't know much about them, honestly. I could use either powered or passive, although powered would be more convenient. Anyone have comments on the Elac b6? Seems to be getting strong reviews.

 

"Budget" means different things to different people, of course. I have been using some Adam Audio A5 for years, which I love to death. They're extremely clean and surprisingly linear. Obviously, being small, they aren't bass monsters, so some folks might like to add a sub. Anyway, worth a look, if you want something out of the ordinary.