Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Warning you that the Rokit 5 G4 does not extend to 40hz. It is fine for kick drums not in EDM or modern rap but keep in mind that low E on an electric bass guitar is 41hz. So they are not the best for bass and you’ll be hearing overtones instead of the fundamental some of the time with bass. You must compromise with physics and cost. The only way you can be sure is to hear them yourself.

No cheap 8” monitor I’ve heard really goes down to 40hz without sounding slow and flabby though. Those Fluid FX8 and Mackie HR824 both have issues but at least the FX8 are 400 a pair.

 

@Psalmanazar, what do you think of KRK Rokit 5 G4 vs KRK V6 S4? The Rokit 5 G4 is praised as unbeatable for the price on Gearslutz forums. but some recommend the V Series as an upgrade. However, they cost quite a bit more. Have you heard the smaller V4 S4?

 

Don't believe people on forums. Try the Rokit 5 yourself. If you wanted what gearslutz lusts for, you'd end up with some ATC SCM20 off a Crane Song Solaris and it would sound like shit.

The V6 are better but the difference is much closer than with the old Rokits and the Rokit 5 is much cheaper. Try them yourself. If you're impressed by the Rokit 5 for nearfield use, just get it. If I were forced to drop big money on KRKs now, I'd get the V8 myself for the extension because I already have the Rokit 5. I don't know if I would give up midrange detail from the smaller woofer for more bass like that if I didn't have the Rokit 5 already. V6 is really good to me.

"Unbeatable for the price" has described so many things that aren't worth buying over the years: Mackies, JBL LSRs, Focal Alphas, I could go on. I couldn't bring myself to even buy JBL LSR 305 mk ii for 150 bucks a pair on sale. These Rokit 5 are actually pretty good so I bought them.

 

Thanks, good advice ;-) I'll have to remind myself why I am here. I must be a masochist because I bought a pair of cheap Mackie monitors for my secondary system.
If I like Mackie MR524 (but realise some of their shortcomings) do you think I would find the bigger, dearer Mackie XR824 a worthy upgrade? Or just a bigger, dearer version of the same?
Fortunately these are available locally (not much else is), so I can answer my own question, eventually.

 

Has anyone here heard Neumann KH 80 DSP + KH 750 DSP?

 

KH80ie's are great for their size. The problem with KH750 is that it still hasn't got all the DSP functionality Neumann had promised.

 

Oh right, didn't know that, but I am willing to wait though. Looking for a nearfield (desktop) setup and I'm currently debating if I would need KH 120 sized speakers or if I could do with the KH 80 DSP.

 

It depends whether you can live with a digital monitor. If you have a fancy DAC, then KH120 makes more sense.

 

Don't have a fancy DAC, nor do I have problems with a digital monitor. I would probably wait for a DSP version of KH 120 if that's the size I was going after.

 

KH80 and KH750 have piked my interest. Looking for quality listening and learning to mix/master.
@Hrodulf - can you please elaborate on 'live with a digital monitor'?

 

These do better on stands behind your desk than on your desk. KH120 gets a lot louder and goes lower than the KH 80. I think you can do a lot better than the Neumanns for around the same prices. Listen yourself and don’t just buy stuff based on reddit idiots and the measurements on the Sennheiser website. None of them sound flat despite Sennheiser using equalization via dsp and active crossovers to make them measure flat. The KH 120 sounds muddy and veiled for example.

 

Hmm really? I would definitely place them on stands. Not sure if they need to go louder when using nearfield and doesn't the added sub make the lower frequency limit a moot point? Sure I've got to hear them as well.

 

As a fellow Dynaholic, I recommend giving the Evoke 10's or 20's a try if you haven't already. I haven't auditioned the 10's yet, however the 20's were quite impressive. They are not quite as refined as the S40's, however have a more lively sound IMO.

 

I made an account here just to respond to this, but I guess it’s a good thing because this forum looks pretty cool.

Anyway, for starters I want to say that I agree the Rokit line is pretty dang good. I mated a pair of ns10’s to their 10” sub and it sounded pretty killer, and not half bad compared to my ATC SCM150ASL’s w/ the .1/15” sub. <1K versus 40k in speaker componentry and the ATC setup is definitely not 40x better.

Now having said this, I DO in fact run my ATC’s (and monitors in general) through a crane song Solaris and it sounds great. The SCM20 sound signature isn’t that different so I imagine we must just have vastly different perceptions and ‘needs’ when it comes to audio reproduction. I will admit that my setup is in a professional studio where our job is to track and mix audio day in and day out — so while this might in and of itself solve the discrepancy (this isn’t an audiophile application but something that ideally would serve as a forerunner to audiophiles - e.g. making music audiophiles would listen to). Although none of the other engineers or myself tend to consciously mix for an audiophile market anyway.

I do think it’s worth saying that many of these pieces of kit are designed for engineers - and its interesting to compare the pro market’s perceptions versus the perhaps consumer or pro-sumers perception of sound - something both sides of the equation could probably benefit from keying more into.

-neilvg

 

Everything is preference and you can learn to mix on anything with enough references. There are guys who will chew out the flaws if ATCs if you mention them. Pros made great sounding records on NS10s and Urei horns but they also made a ton of records that sound horrific or just plain odd on fuller range or flatter playback gear. When I heard the ATC SCM20, I've always thought it had, forward midrange and lacked bass extension that would make it hard to Sure it has talking points but still has limitations and is horrendously overpriced and being horrendously overpriced is a selling point to many. The cheaper ported monitors are more popular for sonic reasons too despite ATC always mentioning their distortion specs.

Audiophiles are weird. They like a lot of crap and most of them do not really listen to music at all. It's mostly classic rock and elevator music played in the background. And then you have guys with 10,000 dollar setups that sound awful listening to K-pop and not caring one bit about the sound.

Anyway, the ATC SCM 20 sounded much better than an NS10m Studio to me and I'm sure the Solaris is a great piece of kit but it's too hyped up to be easy to try, is just a converter, and most of the members of this forum who actually listen to music tend to prefer a bassier/darker/warmer/softer sound.

Pro market can be just as deaf as the audiophiles too. They ate up Amphions, Mytek DSD 192 Stereo, RME, Benchmark, and Focals. I'd take some Presonus gear with a pair of mass market JBLs over most of that.

 

Well, RME is mostly loved in the pro circles due to stellar reliability. Who cares about the sound if your drivers freeze up while the band is doing their best take.

 

Of course but there are people who actually like the sound and think it sounds great while other people despise it and begrudge it. Other stuff is just as reliable now and sounds much better: Presonus and Apogee thunderbolt gear, Lynx, MOTU, etc just to throw some stuff out there.

 

I don't require a music lover to be adventurous or up-to-date, in fact I got stuck somewhere in 1970-something, but...

Going to meetups. Seeing Hotel California listened to reverently. Frankly a boomblaster would do.

And the other thing is everything has to be difficult. A sound system has to appeal more to the ego than the ear. It is brilliant because of its owner, not because of its parts or its music.

Hey ho, apart from a few little rough edges like that... I guess "going to meetups" gives me away as being (or having been) a bit of an audiophile myself.

 

Yah, I guess what I was pointing out, or rather what occurs strongly to me is that people all have their own reasons for building a system - and that they will then go on to use similar adjectives to describe how good it is, even though their criteria, perceptions, tastes, and aesthetic preferences have way more to do with the end result then what the common 'audiophile' adjectives would lead us to understand about a given setup. I bet, to pick on Psalmanazar (who, btw, I think clearly shows a depth of knowledge in pro gear that most audiophiles do not have), that if we were both top describe our ideal systems, they would sound, in words, somewhat similar -- but in reality, I think our component choices would be totally different.

This isn't just the case of perception and taste though - and I do admit that we can learn to mix on almost anything. It comes down to what gets the job done the easiest - and that job for an audiophile is different then with a music aficionado (a different category than an audiophile perhaps), and then of course different again to an audio engineer. I do find it interesting that we will still use all of the same terms to describe what we are hearing, even though we might disagree with each others systems containing those attributes, or at least the balance in which they are presented.

For me, a system that allows me to know 'what to do' is best, because I don't want something that sounds great and leaves me questioning where to go. Those kinds of setups, which are highly euphonic and musically involving, don't tend to translate as well, and they don't give me a lot of data with which to sculpt. I need to laid out raw, bare, and a little nasty... the ATC's do that, the NS10's definitely do that. And I also know much more clearly when I get it right with these setups because the target zone is pretty clear. With a really euphonic setup - to me, like most barefoot speakers for example, they already sound pretty polished, and the zone for what my finished production should sound like becomes more vague... esp. when it comes to more adventurous sonic enhancement, and stylistic productions that are meant to be rough, or lo-fi.

The crane song does work well for this application as well, since it provides clarity and consistency... what it does, it does the same way across different types of music, and this is helpful. I will say though, that if I was only going to listen to music, and enjoy music for its comfort and textural effulgence, I would probably go for something like a Dali Euphonia MS-4 with a Manley Snapper tube amp. I used to run this setup and it was to die for. But then again, I could never mix with those.

-neilvg

 

I just got my kh120.

and i've owned before

focal solo 6
eve audio 205
atc scm 10
harbeth p3esr
genelec 8030
genelec 8020
audioengine a5

tried long enough

JBL 305
Adam a5x
dynaudio emit10
PSI a14/ a17
-----

I've posted my review for most of these before but will post some important pointers here

1. Best speakers of them all for me, focal solo 6. balanced, harmonic, big and warm sounding despite it being studio monitors. the speaker's like jennifer aniston. wholesome, pretty, but old looking. come on. those wood veneer looks like shit.

2. ATC scm 10 is on par with focal solo 6 actually. but at low volume, this is the worst speakers of them all. not suitable for desktop. those inefficient magnets refuse to sing soft.

3. Harbeth gave me the most wow moment when i hear female vocals on them. Listening to hip hop on this is a nightmare though. slow and soft bass. You've seen the founder Alan Shaw? Yeah you will prolly like Harbeth when you look like Alan Shaw.

4. Neumann kh120 has a similar sound signature like genelec. much better bass. but... i don't like the sound. you can clearly hear each instrument playing in a song and the vocal right smack in the center. but it doesn't feel like a song together. its not harmonic. its just a bunch of sounds playing together.

5. a5x is nice.

6. PSI is like your plain jane girlfriend. first impression is meh. second impression is still meh.

7. nothing special about the rest.

8. on second thought, eve audio sc205 is nice. like focal solo 6's buttock-less, boob-less twin sister. no bass, not big sounding but harmonic