Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    715
    Dislikes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    93
    many measurements on the net comparing 30.1 vs 30.2

    I agree with Rlow, that close to the wall, and close to you, i dont think the harbs will work.
     
  2. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,909
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    That giant desk is not doing any favors either. And putting them right on the desk only makes matters worse ime.
     
    yunie_, rlow and wombat like this.
  3. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    45
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Singapore
    nah. i'm talking about having it for my living room when i have my own place. i will never put anything big on my desk again.

    funny thing is, i didn't have much problem with focal solo6 but the atc scm 11 is a little more problematic even though the solo6 has a 6.5inch woofer and similar cabinet size
     
  4. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    45
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Singapore
    yeah you're right.

    the desk is suppose to be problematic for low mid frequency at about 140hz. so that's why i appreicate the low-mid controls on the neumann.
     
  5. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Friend BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    Dislikes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    "Small" and "acoustic panel" don't really go together in the same sentence. At that rate, putting a big fat teddy bear in the corner behind the speaker might work better.
     
    murphythecat and Serious like this.
  6. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

    Friend BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,587
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Munich
    The desk becomes your floor and you get what would normally be floor bounce at a much higher frequency. Possibly in the 500Hz-1kHz region. Maybe all the way up to 4kHz. I wouldn't be surprised if the FR looked awful. I have a similar problem with my current monitors.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
    Ash1412, rlow, Riotvan and 1 other person like this.
  7. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    45
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Singapore
    Any intention to solve it? Was thinking isoacoustic stands may help a little
     
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Dislikes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Before anyone reads what I wrote about cheap shit in the dac thread and gets the wrong impression: a lot of what is being cost reduced are the drivers, cabs, power supplies, and amps and this affects usability.

    The woofers often will have stamped frames and the tweeters will use some bullshit neodymium magnets instead of iron. This is chineseium, what did you expect? You often won’t even see ferrofluid on the tweeter like the og jbl 305. They are that cheapskate. The new Mkii has ferrofluid and the tweeter is a lot better but still hisses loudly.

    For cabs, the chineseium uses thin MDF or ABS plastic and refuse to line the cabs with adequate dampening, no cross bracing, no bitumen sheets, nothing like that so they will resonate and the cheapest Chineseium will be worse than Harbeths.

    The amps and cheap switching power supplies have no head room so dynamics can suck like the original jbl 305. The cheap switchers can’t deliver the current. they are not paying for something as good as those expensive regulated xp power floor supplies that cost 50 bucks. Hell no. They made this shit in China to make it cheap so the owners can buy BMWs. They will cheap out somewhere. The class D amps hit massive distortion at 1/3rd to half their rated wattage so the max spl given on the cheap powered shit are a total lie. Your woofer will hit the limiter and the tweeter will sound like fucking ass with all the white and pink noise mixed into it. It will sound like you’re watching scrambled porn on an old tv.

    Never pay out the ass for anything class D unless it has some insane wattages on it. Like 3x what a usually class ab amp would be. an So these scammers want to sell you stuff that is cheaped out most of the time, even on expensive shit. The stuff that takes advantage of class d efficiency that doesn’t want to rob you and actually will get loud will have something just like 500-700 watts on a big ass woofer.

    Only the small cheap shit tends to be good because you’re closer up and won’t crank it, which will call out how shit the cabs and plate amps are. So the 5” woofer stuff will be decent 1m away at 70-90 dB or so l, which is amazing for 300-400 bucks a pair. And the 6-8” shit will suck penis. Except for Yamaha where the 8” is legit and the 5” will make you want to kill yourself.

    Now let’s move up an inch or two. Compare the 7” KRK Rokit or the Kali 6” to the Dynaudio BM6A which came out in the 90s and is still a tank, and it’s a fucking joke. Yeah they’re all kinda dull and warm but only one isn’t shit and will deliver transients right within its sound signature at reference levels It just costs 2000 bucks. You get what you pay for. Same with the Adam T series compared to the good old A7X. One is killer, one is crap.

    Good class d is hella expensive stuff f you want more than like 100 clean watts. Hell it is just as expensive. Class ab and analog active crossovers are still the best and you gotta pay. Use your ears. Do not believe the companies spouting off new technology that is mostly being used to rip you off.
     
    Mindbender, allegro and yunie_ like this.
  9. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Dislikes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Barely. Get a smaller, lower desk, pull it out from the wall, and get some real stands to set them up at ear height. The cheap stands are fine for these 10-20 pound monitors. Not for TANK real deal monitors meant to survive abuse from dumbasses.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 10:44 AM
    Serious likes this.
  10. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    45
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Singapore
    i get you.

    before i contemplate that. would a equalizer like schiit loki help?

    [​IMG]
     
  11. treboR

    treboR Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Likes Received:
    554
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Outer Mongolia
    Psalm, hey thanks for that huge post in the DAC talk thread. It was very illuminating.

    I'm curious why you dislike the 7 series JBL monitors. Did you demo the active 705? Not a fan of that compression driver, or sub or the class D amplification? Doesn't go down to 40hz or lower?

    I guess there's no hope to finding an affordable compromise to the M2s. (besides DIY)
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 9:37 AM
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Dislikes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah an eq would be a good temporary fix but the Loki is very limited and you’re on a computer so much better would be any eq plug-in.
    There’s room eq wizard or whatever it’s called
    And The reaper plugins are killer and free
    https://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/
     
    Riotvan and Serious like this.
  13. Riotvan

    Riotvan Got lost for three weeks at Delft City Hall

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,909
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Yeah my brother has a similar situation, big desk etc. He had a 20db boost at 45 hz which drove him nuts. A simple sinesweep and and eq(i used equalizer apo) and we knew where the problems were. Of course measuring is better but you can fix the big offenders easily enough like this.
     
    Psalmanazar likes this.
  14. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Dislikes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don’t see why anyone would ever want a compression driver right in front of their face. Soft domes all the way. Kevlar and AMTs are decent but not as good. Metal tweeters can go to hell.

    The 708p will be the closest powered thing to the M2 though.
     
  15. treboR

    treboR Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2019
    Likes Received:
    554
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Outer Mongolia
    Lol I've never heard a compression driver before, that's why I wanted to know why you disliked them. And I wouldn't have them setup that close anyway.

    Problem is I won't be able to find a shop that has them to demo. I ain't buying those blind if I ever do. Only thing I can demo are PA speakers at Guitar Center, which might not be a bad idea and get a subwoofer.
     
  16. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    715
    Dislikes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Personally, id stick to listening to headphones for my desktop needs.
    I mean, listening to speakers at 1m away from your ears, the speakers placed on the desk with all the strong early reflection coming off from the desk. plus add the untreated room. horrible.
     
    Kamikazi likes this.
  17. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

    Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,924
    Dislikes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Speakers are still going to sound better than headphones.

    If you can get away from the desk reflections, are not using some computer waveguide bullshit that blends the reflected sound with the direct sound, don’t listen too loudly, you can pretty much negate much of the room. That’s the point of nearfields. They’re voiced for that.

    The amount of treatment you should even do for true 4-7” woofer, two nearfields is pretty minimal. The people who try to sell you tons of bullshit are trying to sell you a lot of bullshit instead of a 50 dollar measurement mic, a couple of panels to treat the first reflection points, and a bass trap or four. Positioning the speaker within the room is often more important than treating the room. Mistreating the room or using too many bass traps tends to just unfavorably change the tonal balance in one direction or the other versus what you started with.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 4:03 PM
    yunie_ likes this.
  18. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

    Friend
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,916
    Dislikes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Laguna Hills, CA
    Home Page:
    Anyone heard the KRK V4S4? They're $280 per speaker at AMS right now. I don't need high volume and largely listen from something like 1m away. Also have a subwoofer.
     
  19. murphythecat

    murphythecat Friend

    Friend
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Likes Received:
    715
    Dislikes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    93
    in a situation like Yunie's, a situation which ive been in, i much prefer good headphones, id definitely not spend thousands of dollar for a speaker in that position! looking at Yunie's pictures, this is just catastrophic for SQ.

    no matter the size of the woofer, acoustics will still ultimately determine the sound quality. Room modes, reflections, are still present whether you listen loud or at low spl, or whether your far or close from the walls (off course it helps being further from the side walls but its no substitute for good acoustics). The size of the woofer will limit bass extension, but in my experience, a untreated room will colour the mids and treble and greatly affect imaging and this is where its even more irritant imo. weird how some people constantly use the "badly treated" rooms for a argument to descredit how much a well treated room improve sound quality. makes zero sense.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 7:07 PM
    Kamikazi and yunie_ like this.
  20. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    45
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Singapore
    i hate listening to headphones but i do agree about the room (or rather the desk) affecting the sound. at 0.6m away from the speakers, placing the speakers on the desk and at the edge of the desk (so sound doesn't reflect off the desk) makes a huge difference.

    seems like the best of both worlds will be me doing a room correction
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019 at 9:44 PM

Share This Page