Need help making a vocal recording setup

Discussion in 'Musicians and Instruments' started by kirayamato, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    Hi, guys Thought I'd ask as am trying to get a recording setup started/
    it's primarily gonna be used for vocals. I am just a singer but will have people record the guitar etc but the microphone has to be the best for vocals everything else is secondary.

    Currently, I already have the Lynx E22 which I got to get AES for my music setup and found out its suppose to be really good for recording as well so what am Left with is getting a microphone and a mic preamp/interface (sorry a novice at this).
    I am almost dead set on getting the Blue Kiwi but can be swayed but definitely not sure on the mic preamp and would like to keep it under 500$ if possible
     
  2. ThePianoMan

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    What is your voice range/timbre like and what sorts of things are you singing and for what purpose? Important considerations for mic selection. I'd be cautious looking at Blue mics, although they're nice products they have a very Pre-EQ'd sound. Not helpful if you want to do much EQ or post-processing of your own. Considerations like portability, use as a live mic, selectable patterns, etc. Might be factors depending on what you're doing as well. What are you going for with your setup?


    In terms of interfaces, if your Lynx isn't setup to handle the recording, there are plenty of decent cheap units out there (focusrite and presonus are very popular) but if portability is a factor you might consider getting a zoom or tascam recorder. Under $500 some of the Motu, stuff is alright as well. It's a crowded market segment but you can't go wrong with anything besides behringer. You get what you pay for pretty much.

    If you could provide a little more info I can point you in some directions. Gearslutz is worth checking out too, although that may be overwhelming.
     
  3. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    Hi thanks for the reply
    I would say right now am somewhere in between tenor/baritone but leaning towards tenor only been taking vocal listens for a few months still building my range and stuff but I can hit pretty high notes and vocal coaches say I sing high so ya

    I want a stable setup more like a studio thing as even if I move it its gonna stay in one room and be setup for that I could get a different mic later if i really end up going for live performances but thats not my thing.

    now for lynx e22 am pretty sure I have the cable that will go into the mic preamp(amplifier whatever it is) and then from that into the Mic

    so the chain being PC > Lynx e22 > Mic preamp > Mic
    this is where i got That I could use it like this https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new...ion-question-zone/1115956-about-lynx-e22.html

    I was pretty set on the Blue Kiwi and from what I hear its suppose to be the best Mic in the 2k range I can get it used for around 1k so that's what I was shooting for.
    I was literally buying it because Charlie Puth uses it and I feel my voice timbre is quite like his plus he's a music engineer from his studies so ya but again am up for options not hard stuck don't see much options in the 1-2k market and definitely need help with the mic preamp want one that can handle at least the mic and a guitar.
     
  4. ThePianoMan

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    Ok, cool.

    If you're looking the $500 ish range, the Focusrite Clarette series (the 500 series) are nice transparent preamps, more on the clean/clear side of things. If you're looking for a little more warmth the Warm Audio stuff, maybe the WA12 would be a good bet.

    I find the Blue Kiwi a finicky mic. I've used it before and it has its place certainly, but it's rather bright and has a funny sheen to the sound if you're room or placement setup isn't optimal. It will not reward novice microphone technique. There are some fantastic condenser mics under 1K, for example the Stellar CM-6 is a favorite of mine. Even though its cheaper, price does not necessarily always denote quality in microphones (as in headphones)
    the added benefit of a cheaper mic is that you can then invest a little more into the preamp or even get a little folding iso-booth from someplace like gik acoustics which is going to make a much bigger difference than $400 in the microphone world.

    However, if you're really serious about spending $1K on a mic and are looking for that hyper-transparent sound, I'd check out a used Brauner or a mic from Samar Audio. They can both be had for around 1K or sometimes a little less. If you're a higher singer with a brighter sound I'd be cautious about getting a Kiwi. Not that it won't work, it's just been my experience that it can sometimes be a bit harsh on high male vocals. Take that for what it's worth, YMMV.

    Here are some links:

    Samar Audio - very nice, very transparent ribbon mics. They are very extended and I've used them on a wide variety of sources to great effect. (You might also check out an AEA R84, it's the mic Disney uses for most voice overs and singing)

    http://www.samaraudiodesign.com/category.html

    Reverb (great source for used gear) has some Brauners in your price range. The AE, Valvet, or Phantom/Phannthera would all be great choices. Some of the most detailed mics out there, and I've found they're even more accurate than the Kiwi, but will also reward better mic technique. Might take some time to figure out how to 'work' them for the best sound.

    https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=brauner

    Stellar CM-6 + Gik folding iso-booth. The CM-6 is made by a really nice guy name Peter in Oregon who custom-makes each mic. They punch way above their price point and have the handy quality of being multi-pattern. These are absolutely professional quality microphones up there with other top condenser mics. Very even, detailed sound, smooth without too much of any one thing. Balanced and not too warm or bright. The Gik booth is super handy, about the same price as a nice reflection filter and WAY more effective than any reflection shield I've tried. Folds up for easy storage, and just super handy. The folks at Gik are really nice as well.

    https://stepromic.com/epages/7bfa09...h=/Shops/7bfa0990-abc8-4b74-afbd-4ae4a6b984ae

    http://www.gikacoustics.com/product/pib-portable-isolation-vocal-booth/

    Reverb and Sweetwater are decent places to search for preamps, Amazon has some stuff too. Make sure the preamp (you'll likely want to look at a 500 series with a DI and one or two mic pres if you're doing guitar DI) has the right connections for what you want. Also don't skimp on a mic stand, get one that's sturdy enough to hold whatever you buy. Most of the mics you're looking at for vocals are going to be pretty heft. I'd recommend one of the Triad stands. They're not crazy (compared to some stands) and they are very sturdy while folding up very small if needed. Also make sure you have XLRS, cables, pop filter (a cheap one works fine here) and everything. Don't be frustrated if at first the sound isn't what you had in your head. It takes time to dial in the gain, learn where the proximity effect of the mic is, find the best position in your room, and get used to hearing yourself through a mic. You'll improve with time and experimentation! Good luck.
     
  5. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    thanks alot for all the suggestions the Stellar CM-6 looks really good it has its own power supply ? would that mean I don't need a preamp? or if so do you recommend a wa12? that looks nice

    I see myself not spending as much if am not getting a blue kiwi so i'll probably go with the stellar cm-6 but anyways what would you recommend as a preamp for the stellar or the blue kiwi?
     
  6. ThePianoMan

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    The Stellar CM-6 is a tube mic, so it needs a power supply, but you still need a preamp. The chord to connect mic to power supply is included, but you'll still need an XLR to hook the power supply into the preamp. The power supply shouldn't be an issue if you're not moving the setup around much. The WA12 is a good preamp, although a warmer sound. Might be ok if you're voice is bright. The stellar isn't an overly warm, syrupy mic though, so I'm sure you'd be fine with the WA12. You might check out the focusrite Clarette 500 series if you're looking for a more 'clean and clear' sound, but at this price point either mic preamp should have plenty of clean gain and sound decent.

    If you're going to get the Kiwi, the WA12 for sure to tame the brightness. If the Stellar, it'll play nice with just about anything.
     
  7. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    If you didn't already have the e22, I was thinking something like the Prism Lyra would be a nice all-in-one unit, though it does optical out instead of aes.

    At $2k for mics, you're well into swanky Neumann range, though I'm sure you've already done your homework and read the bazillion threads out there. Performance is pretty good across the board here, so really it just comes down to which one you can get the best deal on and it sounds like you've got a sweet lead on the Kiwi already (and if it doesn't pan out, you can sell without loss and try something else).

    On the mic-pres... Focusrite was already mentioned, there's the ISA One. Grace and makes a one-channel unit I forget the number. Meh, don't listen to me, ThePianoMan clearly knows his stuff.
     
  8. ThePianoMan

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    Oh yeah, I forgot about the ISA line. The Grace mic preamps are absolutely stunning, although I believe the M501 is a little over $500, but I could be wrong on that.

    I've been toying with the idea of giving Jason a call to do a really high-quality affordable mic-pre for awhile, but alas...
     
  9. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Grace M501 - $675
    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/m501

    Focusrite ISA One - $499
    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ISAOne

    Interesting that there's actually a Kiwi + ISA combo on sweetwater: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Kiwi-ISAOne

    The Canadian in me would suggest the Radial Powertube. or perhaps if matching gear is important, there's the funky looking Blue Robbie o_O

    But again, don't listen to me... I'm just a schmuck with one of these: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubeMPSTV3 and a "vintage" ABBA mic.
     
  10. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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  11. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    @Armaegis so wanted to ask whats a 500 chasis and why would I want it? seems like a thing that holds alot of stuff together like a server rack?

    also a one channel unit can record vocals and a guitar at the same time ?

    like can the wa 12 record vocals and a guitar at the same time ?
     
  12. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    The 500 chassis supplies the power and inputs/outputs to the modules. The modules themselves are simply plug'n'play into the chassis. This is popular for swapping out or rearranging effects processors and you won't have to change the wiring at the back. Overall, 500 series modules are cheaper and more compact (and portable) than rack mount units, but you have to factor in the cost of the chassis.

    >>also a one channel unit can record vocals and a guitar at the same time ?

    I'm a little confused by the question. If you're not right up close, a single channel mic/preamp can record the vocals and guitar together... but if you're planning on mixing materials with stuff recorded by other people, then dedicating one channel purely to vocal would be better.
     
  13. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    oh sorry i guess my question was kinda dumb

    so with all the single channel amps I would record the vocals separately and then separately put in the guitar into the preamp like the wa12 and then record it right?
     
  14. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    oh sorry i guess my question was kinda dumb

    so with all the single channel amps I would record the vocals separately and then later put in the guitar into the preamp like the wa12 and then record it in another instance and mix them together right?

    @ThePianoMan is the wa tone beast not a better thing to go for then the wa12 as it seems like the wa12 with more options and a newer build? (what it seems like to me but i know nothing XD)
     
  15. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Basically yes.

    Not to offend or anything man... but if these are the kind of questions you're asking, it might be better to get back to basics and discuss your entire chain and recording procedure before you go dropping a couple thousand bucks in gear. Maybe nab someone else's recording bundle from craiglist for cheap to start.
     
  16. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    haha no i understand that stuff what I wanted to ask was if the wa12 was a single channel amp it was super late XD
     
  17. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Gotcha. The WA12 also comes in 500 format and is cheaper than the standalone... $420 vs 470
    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=WA12
    But again, factor in the cost of the chassis. The nice thing with the 500 series is that it does make things more portable and cleaner, and the modular capabilities are nice. The downside is that you're tied to the chassis.
     
  18. kirayamato

    kirayamato Friend

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    ya am stuck between the wa12 and tone beast what are your thoughts on both?
     
  19. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I'll defer to @ThePianoMan on that one as I do not have direct experience with either of those. But I think you basically said it earlier... you're basically paying for the extra options. Are those something you'd be using?

    Also, just check local classifieds and see if there's something available. Sometimes Often the best deal dictates what you get.
     
  20. ThePianoMan

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    I haven't used the tone beast extensively to be completely honest. I've used the WA12 non 500-series and it's a nice unit. I'm pretty sure the Wa12 doesn't have a DI if you're looking to DI in your guitar you'll for sure want that unless you plan on recording guitar and vocals into the same mic (which can be ok too) I personally don't like messing around with 500 racks and if you're only going to be getting one unit it's not worth it to buy a whole rack.

    Honestly I was surprised by the price of the ISA one from focusrite. That's quite a nice unit in my experience, and it has a DI which would be useful for you. The WA12 is a fine preamp as well, just be aware there's no DI. At this price point you're really just looking at upgrades over the basic crappy interface preamps, so don't get too hung up on the differences. Just get what inputs and options you need.

    I suppose for the record, the ISA sounds more focused and clean, while the Wa12 is more warm and thick sounding. I prefer a cleaner sound but the choice is yours.
     

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