Neumann NDH 20

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by kitty995, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. kitty995

    kitty995 New

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    Hey all,

    I already have read several threads but never posted anything.

    Has anyone experience with the mentioned headphone?
    It's the first Neumann headphone ever and I reallr have good experience with their loudspeaker.

    I would be interested in measurements as well as pics if the driver.
    I thought about buying one and send it back afterwards.

    kr kitty
     
  2. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    I’m interested in seeing some measurements of these, too.
     
  3. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I'm working on getting a pair to our lab.
     
  4. kitty995

    kitty995 New

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  5. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    NDH20-AFR-sysw.PNG

    Not bad. Too much bass for my liking, but overall... palatable. Build quality panzer-like, THD... planar-like low.
     
  6. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    That's the actual channel balance? The bass seems fixable with mods.
     
  7. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Is this a potential HD 280 replacement for a tracking, isolating, closed can that clamps hard?
     
  8. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Too fancy for tracking. And maybe a bit lacking in the isolation dept. I can see them used for mixing, when calibrated. These are proper modern dynamic drivers with nice resolution. I need to teach my lab guys do proper CSD's.
     
  9. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    As promised, my take on the Neumann can.

    When I first heard about Neumann getting into the headphone game, I was skeptical, maybe unfairly so. Was an established studio monitor and microphone manufacturer doing me-too product? Was Sennheiser using Neumann to brand their professional line of headphones? As it turns out - neither! The Neumann NDH 20 offers something of a unique sound signature that’s different from anything Sennheiser has put out. It’s not perfect, but let’s find out where it definitely shines!


    General specifications:

    • Type: Dynamic driver, around-ear, cabled

    • Impedance: 150 Ohm

    • Claimed Total harmonic distortion at 1kHz/100dB: <0.1%

    • Claimed frequency response: 5 – 30,000 Hz

    • Includes 1/4" to 1/8" adapter

    • Weight: 390 g (without cable)

    Does NDH 20 require a headphone amp? NO

    • Despite the high-ish impedance of 150 Ohms, the NDH 20 is a gentle load for just about any headphone output out there. High sensitivity coupled with high-ish impedance will make sure that your amplifier stage works at its most linear. 150 Ohms also mean that these headphones are fairly resistant to tonality changes due to output impedance and could actually be usable with many tube amps out there.

    Build quality: 9.5/10

    • Built like a [German] tank! Almost all parts that are not padded are made out of cast aluminum with most surfaces being matte, thus fingerprints are not a problem. Most parts can be taken apart with a torx driver and all padded surfaces seem to be swappable. Knowing Neumann, all parts for the NDH 20 should be readily buyable should they need replacement. Cables seem to be built well, however their connection to the earcup uses a custom molded plastic 2.5mm TRS jack. A more common connector would’ve been better as it would allow the user to easily repair and craft their own cables.

    How do they sound out of the box: 7/10
    NDH20-AFR.png

    • I own a pair of Neumann KH310 monitors, so I was a bit biased to what their headphones could sound like. Neutral, even boringly so with scary good resolution which reveals itself once your ears get accustomed, was my expectation. Once I tried the NDH 20, I was surprised! Bottomless low-end extension with some “belly” and no trace of the usual “pro” hyped highs. The measurements partially confirmed with my impressions. Highs are accentuated, but no mt. Beyer. The bass emphasis on the Neumann NDH 20 makes them a really fun headphone, but does seep into low mids a tad. Upper mids are scooped which usually robs distorted e-guitars or synth lines of their bite. Low THD throughout the frequency range means the NDH 20 has terrific resolution, but bass boost muddies up the mids a bit. Overall the signature is a bit too fun to be used for mixing without reservations or calibration, but for recreational listening, pretty nice actually!
    NDH20-THD.png


    Comfort? 8/10

    • The all-aluminum chassis on this Neumann headphone is not light, but a far cry away from the heavyweights like Audeze which go over half a kilo. The fit is well done with no pressure hot-spots due to weight or clamping. Cable microphonics on the NDH 20 can be troublesome at times, but that’s more of an on-the-go issue.

    Channel balance 8/10

    • Overall very good with around 1.5dB imbalance in mids which can mess with some surgical positioning, but you can meet worse in other more popular headphones. Imbalanced low-end extension looks worse than it really is. Usually everything is mono under 100Hz and even then the ear isn’t too sensitive to position changes this low.

    Are they worth the price? 6.5/10

    • This is a tough one, as the Neumann NDH 20 isn’t exactly affordable. There are less costly options with better overall tonal balance, but worse THD performance. These aren’t the closed back HD650, everyone probably was expecting, but with some frequency correction the NDH 20 can be a solid 10.

    How would we evaluate the Neumann NDH 20 out-of-box?

    • Overall: a very decent tonal response for a closed back headphone, no closed headphone coloration, but too much low end and scooped upper mids stop them from reaching absolute greatness

    • Pros: a well-engineered headphone driver with class leading THD performance and low-end extension, superb build quality

    • Cons: too much bass, upper mid scoop is pleasant, but it takes away the edge from aggressive music, highs a tad too hot
     
  10. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    When you're done evaluating the second Empyrean could you please do a similar review for them?

    Thanks! :)
     
  11. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    @Hrodulf
    Any chance we can see the internals? I'm curious if there's any magic with the internal geometry/structure or damping.
     
  12. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    Thanks for the review, Hrodulf!
    If Sonarworks starts offering these with the individual calibration, I think I will have to buy a pair for my division. I really have no suitable option for home/mobile/coffee shop situations and my Focal Spirit Pros, even with the average SW calibration, just don't cut it compared to my monitors or HD6x0. There are few other closed cans held in high regard, and they all seem to be ~$800+. These aren't cheap but certainly closer. Lows on HD6x0 require serious correction to pack a punch, so I'd rather start with a little too much and carve it away.

    I am very curious how these respond to SW correction + CanOpener Studio for some less-closed soundstage. https://goodhertz.co/canopener-studio

    Hrodulf, could you comment on soundstage?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  13. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Sorry, maybe if I decide to get one for myself. The ones we’re measuring must be sell-worthy after we’re done.

    Pretty sure at least one pair will get put up for sale. Depends really, wether we decide to brown-nose some celebrity guys or gals. Not my call there.

    As for soundstage, seemed on par or better than the HD650/600/6XX. You can really feel that this driver is a notch above HD6XX headphones, like the one from Focal Elear/Elex/Clear where tonality is worse, but technicalities are very nice.
     
  14. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Maybe some kind of mod or tweaking the pads could take the bass down a notch( besides EQ)?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  15. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    Surely.
     
  16. dark_energy

    dark_energy Friend

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    Driver capability is most important, other things might be fixable as was suggested above. Heck I am not a huge fan of stock HD650 but modded sound brilliant to my ears.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  17. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    @Hrodulf is it possible for you to provide us with a FR overlay against the HD650?
     
  19. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Are there bass ports anywhere on the cups? Usually reducing those might bring down the bass.
     
  20. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    Jowls PMed me for impressions after a recent status, and one thing led to another. So here are my impressions.

    Initial Impressions

    I hadn't used it too much but spent a few good hours listening yesterday, mostly classical to prepare for my recording session. #1 impression is the bass is bottomless. With the SW correction it is really smooth and not overwhelming. I was recording an organ yesterday and it was really crucial to monitor the pedal tones accurately and it did great, and actually gave me more accurate impression than my sub in my office. As SW review states, extremely low THD, very clean driver. Does not have the air of an HD600 (my usual can) but pretty darn good. Soundstage is narrower as well but I use Goodhertz CanOpener Studio as my crossfeed/stereo field tool. With that I use the Mix Engineer preset and it sounds really solid. With the HD600, I can use Mix Engineer Lifelike and it really nails it but that sounds too narrow on the NDH20. With this setup I'd say I get a full 180 or 190 degrees, but not the 210 you might get with an HD600. [disclaimer: pulling those numbers out of my ass]


    Listening notes

    I'm listening to D'Angelo's "Betray My Heart" and the rolled-off p-bass style sounds full but not boomy at all - precise. I'm a bassist myself so I am pretty critical of that. HD600 can't do this trick. H.E.R'S "Focus" has such intense bass that I can find it overwhelming to listen to in the room on my monitors. The NDH produces it with shocking accuracy, including the distortion, but it's clear the distortion is in the bass track, not the can. There is one reeeeally low fundamental in the chorus and it's not loud but it is there. Here's a track I’ve been listening regularly for 11 years, usually very disappointed with whatever system I’m listening to. Mala’s “Miracles” has a very straightforward sub bass line but between room modes and limits of headphone drivers, I find it is almost always uneven. On the NDH, each note is perfectly clear, with the repeating bottom note hitting just a little harder. Same with Mala’s remix of Dubkasm’s Victory. The percussive elements, the horns with their reverb and delays, are all nice and crisp even with the bassline.

    Taking bass out of the equation, Générique from Miles Davis' soundtrack for "Ascenseur pour l'échafaud." Very treble-tilted track with very distinct reverb tails. Sounds pretty damn good to me. For a more balanced and recently recorded album with a great natural reverb and articulation, the first few tracks of Christoph & Julian Prégardien's "Father and Son" (available on Spotify, put out by Channel Classics). Separation on Kendrick Lamar's "FEAR." is great. The dry vocals are so clear you can really hear each detail. Transients are really clear - crisp snare, pick on the guitar, articulation/sibilance on vocal. Tortoise's "Hot Coffee" has a lot of analog distortion, slamming the mix bus or vintage compressors, but also a very deliberate mix. NDH20 renders it very accurately without adding distortion or leaving it clean and toothless. I always use Neurosis' "The Doorway" for testing how a system renders distorted tones. The breakdown part ~3:15 in should sound very clear, very huge, very heavy. How precisely you can hear "into" the guitar and bass, with the drum transients dancing around them, really changes from a good system to a casual listen. Lastly, Earth's "Old Black" is a sparse, slow piece that has its timbres, and its overall bright tilt, rendered properly here.


    Conclusion

    Anyhow, I need to log more hours on it but it's the best closed can I've heard by far. Night and day difference from the Focal Spirit Pro, which I've also used a lot with SW. I feel pretty comfortable listening with these and making critical evaluations. I'll be using them to work from home and work on my own stuff in Ableton too. The mids and treble don't reach out and slap you but that's what I like - does no harm but renders them really well in an understated way.

    I haven't really written impressions and I hope this isn't too far into subjective "listen to my playlist" territory. I hope it's useful.

    System details: RME ADI-2 Pro, Hi-Power mode on --> NDH20 with custom calibration from Sonarworks. Spotify through Audio Hijack, with Goodhertz CanOpener Studio 3.5, then Sonarworks Reference 4.x (the order matters because of how CanOpener works). CanOpener Studio 3.5 is a very recent and significant update. Details here.
    https://tonal.goodhertz.co/canopener-v3.5/
    Spotify set to Very High quality, Normalize volume, volume level Quiet.

    Supplementary images
    Correction curve in Sonarworks
    [​IMG]
    CanOpener settings
    [​IMG]

    Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5Vwkl5gv8bRGQTrSfDUETS?si=BmOiDsjOTUi4MbFpCt9R_A
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019

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