New Schiit / Preamps and Power Amp (was Putting the Schiit Signal Up)

Discussion in 'Preamps' started by purr1n, Oct 6, 2016.

  1. uncola

    uncola Friend

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    It can if it has preamp outputs with variable output changed by the volume knob.. the ZD appears to
    [​IMG]
     
  2. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    Interesting. But what is the interest of an active preamp then? Wouldn't a passive SYS (or an equivalent balanced one) be all you ever needed for the analogue volume control and switching sources?
     
  3. uncola

    uncola Friend

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    this stuff is covered in the main preamp thread, but basically passive preamps with a set impedance can have impedance mismatch with the power amp from capacitance in the cable/resistance and that creates a low pass filter which rolls off the high frequencies. This can be mitigated by using short cables or matching the impedance of the pot/attenuator to the input impedance of the amp. You can also fix it with an actively buffered output, which is the 2nd mode the freya works in. But the real answer is, different methods of attenuation seem to have different "flavors" of sound that different people prefer. Even stuff like the material used in a resistor is believed to affect the sound. i.e light dependant resistors are made of cadmium which they say has a unique and really pleasant sound. that is more in the subjective region and isn't measureable though so depending on how far on the kinsey scale of objective/subjective you fall you might not believe that part :p transformer volume control guys have their own rationale for why it sounds better to them, i.e. resistors throw away signal as heat whereas TVCs use inductive attenuation and trades current against voltage so in some way it preserves more of the original signal. resistor attenuator guys say going through only two resistors is the shortest signal path so that's best etc. like any audio thing it depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go
     
  4. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    All true, but the audibility of crosstalk is questionable below a certain threshold. But as you said, it's not just stereo separation but increased isolation from noise.
     
  5. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    here is why you would want an active pre:

    -If you run long cables

    -If you need more than 0dB gain. Like for a low gain amp

    -If you need to convert RCA to XLR and vice versa.

    For these new preamps the price isn't only the active part. Stepped attenuation is far better then what the potentiometer in the Sys can do since it relies on resistors that can be made very precise. Using electric relays allows more attenuation steps then the typical manual switches. This section alone is probably worth more then the active part. If they made the preamp with an ALPS pot instead then you can drop the price quite a bit. But then you might as well just buy one of their headphone amps.
     
  6. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    I would also add one of the most common reasons to that list: you want to tune the sound a particular way.
     
  7. sphinxvc

    sphinxvc Gear Master (retired)

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    Classic @cizx selfie from his mustache days.
     
  8. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Oh and don't forget the remote functionality. With headphone amp I don't need it but it's pretty much required with speakers.
     
  9. Cakecake

    Cakecake Guest

    Picture of Saga (from head-fi)
    [​IMG]
     
  10. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    ^^^ Looks like a Jot
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I believe Theta (where Moffat use to work decades ago) had version of their DACs (where Yggdrasil can trace its lineage from) with built in pre-outs. I don't think they sold well. People liked their own preamps for various reasons: coloring the sound, switching among sources, remote control, etc.

    Solid-state power amps tend to have about 10k input impedance. Some sources with higher output impedance or limited current may prefer feeding something with higher input impedance. A preamp would help serve as a buffer. The resultant sound is more dynamic and less soft or limp-dick. A preamp can also provide gain. Having sufficient gain is more of an issue with speakers than headphones. Remember, we are not in headphone world anymore.

    As for price: switches, input and output connectors tend to be expensive parts, and there are a lot of them. Lots of attention needs to be paid to the power supply and audit circuit to make sure it sounds as transparent and quiet as possible. Also tube related circuit parts tend to be expensive. Take away the tubes and the price starts to drop dramatically. Finally, don't forget the relay switched resistor ladder volume control. If MSB did that, it would be a $3275 option. Honestly, I'd question more why the O2 costs $129.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
  12. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    This may not be the thread, but I'm glad you brought this up. This is way too much for a simple solid state amp. This is what a 2i2 almost cost, and this includes USB interface, mic preamps, preouts, DAC, ADC, and balanced inputs and outputs. An O2 should be probably about $50, and that only because it can charge 9V NiMH batteries.

    Once one starts to look for other topologies and features, prices can go up indeed.
     
  13. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador

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    i wonder what the pi is for in that picture? arent they using the salk streamer?
     
  14. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I'd say it's because it's through hole instead of SMD. PCB + parts is around $40. Labor is cheaper for robots than people.
     
  15. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    This is what I would want the most, though I'm kinda deep into the EAR camp at this point. That said, I think it'd be really interesting to try different what are essentially phono stages against a DAC.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I asked Jason to consider a special "Direct" interface from the Yggdrasil / Gungnir DA chip outputs to the Freya, essentially making the Freya the output stage of their DACs. You might be able to do this with your EAR preamp, which I assume would also have suitably high input impedance on its balanced inputs.
     
  17. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    Updates made to the Compendium, namely the first RMAF impressions I've seen and the addition of Norse mythology regarding Freya and Vidar.

    As Compendium changes are cumulative, relevant additions are below:

    • "Power switch- yes, it's on the back. Jason said that by nature the more he gets criticized for design decisions, the less likely he is to comply. His T-shirt was black, with a power switch indicator on the back, very funny!"
    • "Sound- There were a lot of folks at that show who will spend a truck-load more money for gear that does not sound any better." [remainder of sound impressions chopped for brevity]
    • "Tech- The preamp is smaller than I expected, standard width, maybe 8 inches deep, about the height of a Gungnir. The chassis are the same L-bent metal as the Joty. There is no balance control, and obviously no tone controls."
    • "The Vigar is as tall as the Yggdrasil, two of the side-by-sde are a bit wider than the 17" standard chassis. The amps are maybe 12" deep, and they do put out some heat. A single amp is not fully balanced, but when run in a mono-block configuration they are fully-balanced. The circuit is a SE variation of the pivot point circuit, Jason will have to provide more details than this. I heard them in mono block configuration this morning. Jason said they will get to about 600 watts at 4 ohms in mono block mode before they shut down, and the numbers are conservative."
    • "The amp has the heat tunnel in the center, no fan, with the heat sink in the center. The top also dissipates heat. The picture of them in the rack at the show depicts them with a low-overhead shelf, Jason indicated that they need more ventilation than this."
    • (source)
    • Means "Lady." Freya is the goddess of love. (source).
    • The name "Freya" means "Lady." She's "one of the preeminent goddesses in Norse mythology." Id.
    • "Her husband, named Odr in late Old Norse literature, is certainly none other than Odin, and, accordingly, Freya is ultimately identical with Odin’s wife Frigg . . . ." Id. Odin was killed by the wolf Fenrir, "who was then killed by Vidar, Odin’s son and avenger." (source)
      • Note: Thus, Vidar is Freya's step-son. See (source)
    • "Freya is famous for her fondness of love, fertility, beauty, and fine material possessions – and, because of these predilections, she’s considered to be something of the 'party girl' of the Aesir. In one of the Eddic poems, for example, Loki accuses Freya (probably accurately) of having slept with all of the gods and elves, including her brother. She’s certainly a passionate seeker after pleasures and thrills, but she’s a lot more than only that. Freya is the archetype of the völva, a professional or semiprofessional practitioner of seidr, the most organized form of Norse magic. It was she who first brought this art to the gods, and, by extension, to humans as well. Given her expertise in controlling and manipulating the desires, health, and prosperity of others, she’s a being whose knowledge and power are almost without equal." (source)
    • "The Wide-Ruling One" (source)
    • "[O]ne of the younger generation of gods who survive Ragnarok, the cataclysmic end of the Norse mythological cycle." Id.
      • It is also assumed that Freya survived Ragnarok."None of the goddesses were mentioned in various accounts of Ragnarok, except Sol (Sun) swallowed by the giant wolf Garm before the battle, but there is assumption that Frigg, [Freya] and the other goddesses had survived." See (source).
    • Pronounced "VEE-dar." (source)
    • "Elsewhere, Vidar is called the “silent god,” although no explanation for this epithet is given. He is said to be the strongest of the gods after Thor." Id.
      • Note: Vidar is Freya's step-son. See FreyaNorse mythology above.
    • "During Ragnarok, the gods – the divine forces who uphold the cosmic order – and the giants – the divine forces of chaos and destruction – battled, and most of those involved on both sides were slain. The god Odin was devoured by the wolf Fenrir. Vidar, a son of Odin by the giantess Gríðr, immediately set upon the wolf to avenge his father’s death. He wore a shoe that had been crafted for this particular moment. It was the strongest and sturdiest of all shoes, and surely also charged with magical properties. With it, Vidar kicked open the wolf’s lower jaw, and then, holding the beast’s upper jaw open, he sliced Fenrir’s mouth to pieces with his sword, killing the monster and ending his devastating rampage." (source)
    • "[W]e know of Vidar only as the avenger of Odin and the slayer of Fenrir." Id.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  18. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    ^^^ I thought the way the monoblocks were placed might cause a heat issue. Bummer, but understandable. Those guys throw a ton of power, way more then those Salks needed...
     
  19. Madaboutaudio

    Madaboutaudio Friend

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    Well if AIO is what you seek, then maybe this is the thingy:


    Price starts from $3,980 all the way to $11,765(all modules in)
    http://www.vinnierossi.com/lio-preamplifier/

    Or you can just get a Jotun or Freya and add your choice of Multi-bit dac.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
  20. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    This would be perfect. Though I'd probably have to buy it w/o hearing it.
     

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