NOS DACs

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by brencho, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. powermatic

    powermatic Friend

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    Looks good! I know a lot of people put bypass caps on those chip caps as well. Did you put a resistor on the power lights? Maybe your version isn't as bright as mine, but that will definitely be Job One for me.
     
  2. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Almost "Made"

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  3. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    @HAL9000

    That looks like a scaled down implementation of the custom chip they use in the Pavane, could indeed be very interesting. Look here:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Almost "Made"

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    Scaled up... the Pavane uses 16 bit modules. Those multiple modules with magical logic in an FPGA get you 24 bits resolution. The new DAC will do 24 bits in a single module.
     
  5. TwoEars

    TwoEars Friend

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    I'm pretty sure the newest versions of the Pavane use those 24-bit modules. If you look at their website they have three levels of the Pavane.
     
  6. JeffYoung

    JeffYoung Friend

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    The "Level 1" Pavane still uses the old 16 bit (DAC ONE) modules. The "Level 2" and "Level 3" each use the new 24 bit (DAC TWO) modules.

    I think existing Musette and Minuet DACs can also be upgraded to DAC TWO modules, but I'm not 100% sure. Existing Pavane DACs definitely can.
     
  7. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Ooooo, I'll have to ask @zach915m if that's possible...
     
  8. JeffYoung

    JeffYoung Friend

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    I got a reply from Cees: existing Musettes can indeed be upgraded to DAC TWO. He said the upgrade program would start late summer.

    Cheers,
    Jeff.
     
  9. Miracle1980

    Miracle1980 Acquaintance

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    I asked about the Menuet (upgrade with Dac2 module) but if I'm not mistaken the Menuet is using a different module than the ones in Pavane... It's neither module 1 or 2...
     
  10. JeffYoung

    JeffYoung Friend

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  11. MattRG

    MattRG Facebook Friend

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    Hmm, depending on price that might be worth considering. I really like my Musette and an easy upgrade using the Dac Two module would be very appealing. I wonder if the Dac Two module is a drop in replacement for the Dac One? It seems like it would almost have to be otherwise an upgrade would involve changing out the board and that would pretty much be a brand new Dac inside a Musette shell.

    When I received my Musette one of the Dac One modules was actually loose inside the case and I was able to open it up and plug it back in with no harmful effects so I know they are made to be plug and play, so to speak.
     
  12. Miracle1980

    Miracle1980 Acquaintance

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    I got the update from Cees and yes... Even the Menuet can be upgraded with DAC2.
    Most probably I will go for it after summer.
     
  13. JeffYoung

    JeffYoung Friend

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    I asked Cees this very thing when I spoke with him over email, and he said it's a drop-in -- you just have to be careful to get them in the right orientation or you'll blow them up. :eek:

    As for price, the 192kHz Pavane upgrade is €826 ex-VAT (8 modules + installation). So depending on exchange rates and whether or not DIY-installed is cheaper, Musette might be something like $275 and Menuet $550. But I'm only guessing here; I didn't discuss this with Cees.

    Anyway, I think it's a no-brainer for Musette owners as they get double the number of R2R ladders and the forward correcting FPGA arrays (which are now built-in to the modules). Price/performance might not be quite as good for Menuet owners who already have forward correction.

    Cheers,
    Jeff.
     
  14. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Oh so that means we don't have to send our DACs somewhere for the upgrade, just pop the new chips in like they were RAM upgrades? Awesome if it is that way...

    ...already planning the listening session before and after the upgrade
     
  15. HAL9000

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    Interesting... Holland and, a little to the north, Denmark seem to be hotbeds of NOS DAC innovation. We have Metrum and Soekris both coming out with 24 bit R-2R dacs within months of each other. Can't wait to hear their new boxes. At $500, the Soekris 24 bit NOS DAC could completely rearrange the game. Not naming any names, but the current flavorite SBAF DAC goes for $2.3K and only resolves 21 bits...
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  16. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    Resolving 24 bits is a marketing myth. Musical content scarcely hold any information above 2^20 = 1048576 bits, and there is no linearity (with R2R) above that as well.

    This has been discussed some in the context of Stereophile and JA's accusations on Schiit:
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.or...e-review-measurements.3762/page-2#post-113731
     
  17. Miracle1980

    Miracle1980 Acquaintance

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    Well, I don't think so. I am afraid that we have to ship our units to Metrum for the upgrade. I'm quite sure about that...
     
  18. HAL9000

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  19. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Does anyone know more about the Rigol oscilloscope screenshots shown for the Metrum Adagio at 6moons:
    http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/metrum3/1.html

    Three questions.
    1. who is the "Advanced Segment DAC" in channel 1 trace?
    2. what amplification between the Adagio and Rigol oscilloscope is used to obtain the traces at 2V/div
    3. doesn't that -90dBFS trace look to have more noise than the yggdrasil -90dBFS found here:
    Schiit Yggdrasil Measurements

    The -70 dBFS certainly looks to have greater glitch noise than yggdrasil:
    Schiit Yggdrasil Measurements
     
  20. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    Right, so how does this work then? At 16 bits, you get 96 dB of DR. At 20 bits, 120 dB. At 21 bits, 126 dB. At 24 bits, 144 dB. At 32 bits, 192 db (though @schiit would ROFL at the suggestion).

    Listen to any prolonged period of time at 120 dB, and you risk getting permanent hearing damage. And to put things into perspective, a stun grenade operates at 170 dB.
    So, what is the interest of DACs performing at above 120 db? To provide immediate and irreversible hearing loss, perhaps. Maybe things do get mastered at 24 bits, but unless this choice is for digital headroom, you will (1) use a filter to "scale" your effectively recorded bit content to 24 bits and (2) it is unlikely that you will get any "real" auditory content above 20 bits or so via this process.
    Do not forget that with most D/S DACs whenever you see claims of 24 or 32 bits, you usually have a footnote noting 18-19 or so effective bits in the specsheets of the D/A IC. I would be sceptical of claims of 24 bits without some kind of independent measurements, say like those by @atomicbob.

    PS Claims of 28.5 bits by MSB have gotten similar short thrift here in the past:
    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/msbs-28-5bit-dac.686/#post-17774
     

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