Ode to Schiit: Vali Coaster

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by purr1n, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Not my words, but this sums it up perfectly, about the man, and his amps. The only exception is that his amps, at least in the post nwavguy world where every other person has an AP-555, don't really measure all that great, good, but not great. Measurements don't mean much once they are past a certain level of decent anyway.

    upload_2020-8-10_11-25-19.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Maybe @schiit still has a small stash of them.
     
  3. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    Aside from his e-stat amps, there are basically two families of designs. Dynalo and the newer CFA amps. I've built the Dynalo and as my first amp it was fine, but higher end stuff would kick it's ass. Strangely enough my Dynalo wasn't sterile, I'd call it rather mid-centric. Dunno, maybe I built it the wrong way.

    The CFA line is the newest and it seems to trump Dynalo/Dynahi amps, according to builders on HC. Again, my amp is a CFA3 of which there are like only three built right now. I'm also running it in zero-feedback mode, others might do their builds for supersymmetry which will sound different. I'm also using old Toshiba JFETs for the inputs while others might opt for THAT340 monolithic BJT's. The CFA2 seems like a decent option if you want to use SE or BAL only, but the build is more difficult than Dynalo as it requires off-board heatsinks.

    There's also the Krell KSA5 clone, but I don't know very much about how it stacks with the aforementioned. Topology-wise it's very similar to a Dynalo/Dynahi.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    DIY stuff can sound different or all over the place. n3rdling's Dynahi sounded totally different from Ti Kan's. Neither was sterile. Although more than one person thought n3rdliing's Dynahi embodied the "stereotypical" KG sound in the highs. I've heard some awesome Dyna-mid builds that sounded nothing like the GS-X. Very likely it comes down to source, and the other individual factors with each build of course.

    One build of the Krell clone I heard sounded quite different from the Dynahi / lo.

    I'm not sure that is a good thing. HC tastes seem to tend toward the dry and cool (inversely, they probably think we are warmpoo). MetricHalo, Mytek, etc. Besides, the HC guys are there to wank KG's wiener. Personally I'd be lot more interested if they took Broskie's half-baked ideas and made them work. Broskie has a ton of great ideas that make super-symmetry seem lame. Heck, even @Zampotech has done some really clever stuff, more out of necessity because he can't keep throwing money at the problem. Ultimately, there's only or two guys there doing DIY. I don't consider true DIY using someone's boards and stuffing them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  5. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    Lisa just sold all but the last 2. She's keeping one. I can send you the other (complete in original bag, with shop dust), if you'd like.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'll take it! For fun, I should build a Schiit tower of power around it using Lego blocks. Wyrd, Modi 2 Uber, and Vali.

    Envisioning some sort of Freemason temple in the Art Deco style.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Those who have owned the OG or stuffed the coaster will be familiar with the ringing from the pencil tubes. Yeah, it sounds like the ringing in our ears every time we accidentally tap on the amp or flip the power switch.

    Schiit Vali coaster
    Tube microphonics at 4132Hz
    upload_2020-8-10_13-0-43.png
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    And BTW, the Vali coaster also comes with am amazing potentiometer with mad tracking skills:
    upload_2020-8-10_13-11-42.png

    Actually, it doesn't. This pot happened to be good, out of a bin of a dozen. It happens. Sometimes we get lucky. This is why I cringe when Audio Science Review does their channel balance measurements. A good measurement or bad channel balance measurement will rarely be representative of any actual product. The vast majority of pots, unless we pay $100 for one (which will add $295 to the retail cost of the unit), are going to suck at low levels.

    It's also good be wary of channel balance measurements when it comes to tube gear. The 9-pin tubes for example, tend to be all over the place in terms of gain. The gain of the two triodes inside the same tube could be off a few db!
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  9. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    Flipiping through the old "World Exclusive: SCHIIT VALI" thread on Changstar netted this piece of revelatory goodness from @purr1n :

    "For all intents and purposes, this is a mini - Eddie Current amp. It has a lot of similarities to the EC house sound."

    Now I know this was early in the process, but did this analysis change as time went by?
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Nope, analysis is the same. I bet the OG Vali proper measures like the EC. The Vali coaster is a bit more Donald North sound, hence my use of Grado bowl pads on the HF-3.

    The common denominator: extremely simple circuit, low power, no overall feedback.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  11. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    I was gifted a Vali by a member here (apologies as I don’t remember who offhand) when I was looking at getting another Vali 2. Their instruction was to pass it on to another friend when I was done with it. I honestly don’t know when that will be. I use it as a bedroom amp with the line out from my Pono as a source and it kicks ass. It’s cured me of the desire for a Vali 2.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    @insidious meme: To add, I think what happens is that new stuff comes out, we get charmed by how it's different. And then we forget that old stuff that may be better in some ways. Granted the microphonics of the OG Vali were annoying. (Actually I think Vali was a stopgap after I unwisely sold my ECBA and went 'stats for a while).*

    I'm looking at the schematics of the Vali coaster right now. Damn I hope Jason comes out with a "high-distortion" no overall feedback amp for the Vali 3 or 4. It's time we start to return to more open loop designs instead of being led astray by the religion of the Audio Scientists.

    *Has @songmic reverted back to SET and dynamics yet from his foray into 'stats as how have I predicted? Not a bad reflection as the journey does need to be taken if one is fortunate enough to be able to afford it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  13. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    They are not scientists. Proclaiming that a limited set of measurements explain everything is as scientific as telling that they explain nothing. Objectivism is nothing but virtue signaling.
     
  14. schiit

    schiit SchiitHead

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    I'll get it sent out tomorrow.

    With respect to open-loop/non-measurement-focused stuff, like I said...we'll have both great measurements and scary measurements on tap going forward. There's some wacky stuff coming (or maybe not so wacky, hell, I never thought people would go for so many Freya+es. We can't keep them in stock.)
     
  15. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    I'm pretty sure you're alone in the market place for sub-$1000 balanced tube preamps with 5 inputs.

    Heck, almost no one makes affordable separates at all anymore.
     
  16. dBel84

    dBel84 Friend

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    I think that is extreme. Assembling equipment from pre-assembled sub units I can see, but slinging solder, teaching yourself enough to understand how it all goes together. That qualifies as true DIY.

    A bit like saying you have to make your own tiles to tile a floor or any such analogy.

    Just varying degrees of commitment to the hobby. There are few few circuit design elements that have not been tried before, thus most all DIY is merely a matter of implementation. I used to make my own boards (after laying it out) - I would much rather pick up a pre-made PCB and even better if it has been pretested to work.

    I know that it was not your intention to dismiss all the great DIY efforts, but figured I would add a voice from the DIY community.. dB
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    To be clear, I'm not all being dismissive as we all need to start somewhere. I didn't know how to solder, really solder, until I was out of a job and worked for Craig for a few months. He just gave me a super hot soldering iron with no temperature adjustment with no helping hands. I was like WTF at first. Hold the solder in one hand, the part to be soldered in the other hand, and the iron ... Wait.

    What I'm trying to cut down is the sense that some guys think that they are hot shit. They aren't. I've met some guys who are amazing audio engineers who make KG look like a clown. And I'm not talking about just Jason or Craig or Alex. I live in an area where all this shit started where some of the old timers are still around. There is a lot of history to these circuits, a lot of history with fashionable trends and lineages going back decades. It's cringy when KG makes a passing comment on a Craig Uthus / Andy Hefley design "oh where have we seen this before" as if KG invented a specific aspect of the design. Especially when these old guys pull up old schematics from the 70s.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  18. dBel84

    dBel84 Friend

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    I know. And you know how I feel about the gilmore girls too. So much can be said but let's focus on your intent for this thread and celebrate the ingenuity and exploration.

    My biggest sense of wonder recently has come from the integration of microprocessors into these products. Jason has pioneered some really amazing things and although unknown, Alex has solved a number of serious challenges through some clever programming and microprocessor control. Opens a whole new world of possibilities.. dB
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Haha. It's good that you didn't get me started because I could end up writing a new thread with a series of posts.

    I've been reading Broskie's site a lot lately. He takes a well known circuit like the diamond buffer (which does have a certain sound), does a few tweaks, runs a few SPICE sims to show how the harmonics change! And then bit by bit he goes off tangents so wild that we aren't even talking about the original circuit anymore.

    I loved the old Cavalli site with his DIY designs and the thought processes and explanations of the circuits of what wasn't so obvious, e.g. EHHA, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  20. Case

    Case Anxious Head (Formerly Wilson)

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    @purr1n , was there ever an amp that left you saying, "I wish I had designed that."
     

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