Off-the-shelf Open Baffle (OB) Speakers Talks/Impressions/Discussions

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Vtory, May 22, 2020.

  1. je2a3

    je2a3 Almost "Made"

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    My wife likes it and hasn't complained about my retro-tech passions, I guess I'm a lucky guy.;)
     
  2. SpeedSmith

    SpeedSmith New

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    Plus that Bauhaus look is really cool. Always good when you can marry form and function.
     
  3. SpeedSmith

    SpeedSmith New

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    @Vtory - I also run a set of Spatials in a near field setup in my office. In my case, I have M4TMs but they are placed and toe'd nearly identical to your setup. My room is challenging being a perfect square that is 12×12. Mine are 40 inches from the back wall to the front of the baffle and about 30 inches from the sides walls. Toe is similar at about 45 degrees. I'm still fussing with toe though. My desk chair is on wheels so I can tune bass by sliding closer to the back wall. But they are setup so I can sit within typing reach to my desk for most listening.

    It's totally an overkill office setup, but I lucked into some used gear deals.

    I very much agree with your assessment, the pluses and minuses. But in particular the ability to place these in ways you can't do with a box speaker. The directionally of the large drivers (in my case the smaller 12") is super helpful.

    Signal chain is Roon > Bifrost2 > Saga OG > Pass Amp Camp Amps (x2) using an Aphex 124a for balanced use. The ACAs will also bridge mono single ended for a warmer tone.

    I have M3TS in my main space and absolutelylove them. I don't know if I'll ever go back to a box speaker.
     
  4. Climber

    Climber Facebook Friend

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    I'm going to build a pair of ACAs this summer for my M3TMs! I realize you're listening near field but take it you don't find them lacking in power? How much of the gain on the Saga are you using? I'll probably use a Freya+.
     
  5. SpeedSmith

    SpeedSmith New

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    The ACAs are rated at roughly 15-16watts bridged single-ended or balanced as mono blocks into 16ohms. The M3TMs are rated at 12-16ohms IIRC. Since you're using a Freya±, I'd definitely go balanced as it really let's the ACAs sing. You get more detail, tonal accuracy and space. With my M4 Triode Masters volume is not a problem. SPL easily gets to 85db a 12x12 room.

    The Saga OG doesn't have additional gain settings other than enabling the tube stage which I run. The Aphex124a which converts Saga's single-ended connection to balanced can add 6db, but I run it zeroed out. With digital music via a Bifrost2, 65-70db is about 12 o'clock. I'm closer to 1 o'clock when serving up analog tunes via a Darlington Labs MM-5 phono stage.

    I've not really pushed it with the ACAs, but for me 80-85db in that room it plenty loud - and this is with me sitting back a bit, 5-6 feet away. If your listening space is larger, you may have to run one of the Freya±'s gain settings to prevent running out of volume knob rotation. But 16watts should be plenty to drive your M3 Triode Masters. Enjoy!
     
  6. Polemarkos

    Polemarkos Facebook Friend

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    My office setup includes a pair of Emerald Physics 3.4 w/ a Rythmik F12G.

    The speakers are interesting for a couple of reasons. The original Emerald Physics line was developed by Clayton Shaw of Spatial Audio fame who sold the brand to Underwood Hi-Fi who were/will be their sole distributor as far as I know. Mark Schifter took over design duties and extended Clayton Shaw's original vision for the line which was built around active crossovers/DSP/bi-amping/room correction and subsequently introduced passive crossover models to the lineup. This is the same Mark Schifter who did an uh-oh when he was associated with AV123. I interacted with him after buying the speakers and he was friendly, helpful and prompt in replies to my questions which was barely warranted as he hadn't made a dime from me. He's also fairly well-regarded as a speaker designer in his own right based on various forum threads I've read.

    The speakers are designed to be run full-range with a built-in 75/24 high pass filter which makes it very easy to integrate with a subwoofer. I'm not aware of very many speakers on the market that identify themselves as basically requiring a subwoofer. A solid integration was easy in my current configuration as the subwoofer placement minimizes room gain and gives me a somewhat "linear" response in an 11X11 acoustic hellhole. I set the subwoofer crossover to 75/24 and messed with the phase a bit until everything cohered. A pass of DIRAC cleaned the rest up nicely.

    Positioning is 8' apart, 3.5' off the corners of the room and 8' driver to listening position. Toe-in is for right speaker to point over my left shoulder and vice-versa, and for back of drivers to point more or less straight into the corner. This helps to minimize cancellation issues. They cross approximately 12" in front of me. This gives me the best combination of soundstage and imaging and basically eliminates primary reflections.

    I'll start with the good: they excel at sound staging (width extends wall to wall, depth is negligible b/c 11X11 hellhole and absence of room treatment at this point), micro and macro detail and dynamics. The principle reason I bought these speakers was to introduce me to open-baffle sound and to learn to identify box colorations and owning these has accomplished that. The sound possesses a significantly larger scale than comes out of my Harbeth P3ESR. Performers are represented at nearly full/natural height even though the soundstage is only 8' away, whereas with the Harbeth the performers sit much closer to the floor.

    It's also possible for me to now more readily pinpoint the congestion that most boxes bring with them, either as a function of inferior cabinetry/bracing or the way the drivers and baffle interact. That's not to say open baffles don't have their own baffle/driver integration issues but they're different and provide an interesting point of contrast.

    97db efficiency and an easy 8 ohm load w/ the high-pass means they do very well with tubes, get extremely loud and are pretty fun to listen to. Dynamic and snappy and the time-alignment b/t the woofer and tweeter is spot-on delivering great transients. They have the 'Live' sound that they're advertised as giving. I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to new releases from Dinosaur JR, Bicep, Emma Ruth Rundle and Mogwai on this setup.

    Now for the bad - tonally these things are a bit of a mess. The compression tweeter has a very noticeable dry, 'etched' quality that is almost unbearable if the speakers are toed-in to align with your ears. Cymbals and other tweeter-centric elements are not intrusively bad at best to awful. Music may be engaging in terms of dynamics but ultimately has a lifeless quality that leads to very few extended listening sessions. Vocals often sound wrong, especially female vocals, like a significant amount of the color is missing. Everything is heavily tinged with a 'sepia' tone.

    I originally thought this perception was a function of not hearing box grunge or typical room colorations, and while this has to be true to an extent it can't explain the ultimately sterile quality that I can't un-hear in most music. This is true whether DIRAC is engaged or not, and I only DIRAC below 400 hz anyway. If anyone has any suggestions for alleviating this sense I'd appreciate it as I'm not quite ready to attempt to sell these.




    IMG_0105.jpg
     
  7. Decomo

    Decomo Almost "Made"

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    Has anyone tried Betsy OB speakers? The Lii 15 version looks very nice. CaintuckAudio is too far for me to visit from my country so no possible demo and I do not know anyone who tried it in my country (to my knowledge) so might have to rely on USA friends who would have higher chance to trying one. If I go for it, I might have to get the driver and build the baffle locally...

    1. Caintuck Audio / Betsy: http://www.caintuckaudio.com/
     
  8. Josh Schor

    Josh Schor Friend

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    On the Maggie's I have owed, 1.6 and MMG's, I did upgrades to both. The biggest improvement in sound was to bypass the fuse. Bigger improvement then upgrading crossover. If you are running a tube amp try bypassing the fuse its amazing
    best,
    Josh
     
  9. Zimmer266

    Zimmer266 Facebook Friend

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    I stumbled into a pair of Magnepan SMGa this week. They are cosmetically quite good, but I will need to do a bit of work for full enjoyment. At a low to moderate volume they are very interesting, especially if I pick music to avoid the buzz at a certain low frequency. I was gifted them, because a friend believes I can do the repair. I am new to hearing any Magnepan at all.

    The size and ease of the presentation is remarkable. And these are the little ones. Wow.
     
  10. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Need to mention these non-modular PAP speakers

    92DB3F54-B5C7-4663-B814-E7098A47756F.jpeg

    Originally I thought the gap between the drivers was a flaw due to the modular design however with this version it seems clear that the gap has an essential contribution. Or it could be a weird aesthetic thing
     
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  11. ergopower

    ergopower Friend

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